Patisandhi, bhavanga, and vīthi cittas

19m

Tadao: I have a question, when I think of realities in terms of Abhidhamma...

A. Sujin: Excuse me, what do you mean by "in terms of Abhidhamma"?

Tadao: I somehow think of Abhidhamma... I often think about realities in terms of five khandhas and vīthi cittas, so in the case of sense door processes there are 17 cittas but last week you asked me whether vitakka accompanies the cakkhuviññana citta or not and I couldn't understand the significance of that question because for me seeing means at least a few rounds of 17 cittas. That was my understanding but when you ask me a question whether a single eye-consciousness is accompanied by vitakka or not then somehow I realized I've realized that seeing doesn't mean that there are 17 cittas as a process so possibly seeing means just one single moment of citta and I'd like to know if it is the case or not seeing just means one citta nothing but one citta.

A. Sujin: Does only one citta arises in a moment, or how many citta arise in one moment? A moment.

Tadao: Just one citta in a moment

A. Sujin: So the moment of seeing is not the moment of other cittas, right? So by studying that a process experiences an object, no matter through eyes or ears. Or when is there bhavanga, is that vīthi citta? Before any moment of experiencing what is there now, it has to be by its process. By bhavanga we understand that it does not experience that which is seen now. So the first moment of vīthi citta, can that be seeing, instantly?

Tadao: No there must be at least three bhavangas.

A. Sujin: And after that what is there, after three moments of bhavanga have fallen away, can there be seeing instantly after the bhavangupaccheda, the end of bhavanga? Can there be seeing instantly after that? Impossible. This is the way Buddha has enlightened the truth of each moment of how many cetasikas arising with such and such moment of citta. Like the moment of bhavanga, more cetasikas than the moment of the eye-door process when it's not the javana yet. This is the great virtue, the great wisdom of the Buddha, but why do we study that: to know that these are virtues, the great wisdom, of the Buddha. We cannot know that but we learn to understand that actually no matter what moment in life it is not self, it is not me, it's only a conditioned reality and without that which can experience an object, can there be life? Not at all. No world, because no experiencing.

And who can stop the arising of the reality which experiences? No one, impossible. But the reality, absolute reality means that no one can make it arise, no one can keep it because it arises and falls away instantly, by its nature. That's why can only one moment of citta be known? Really? Through what process? And how many cittas in a process which experiences an object, the same object? Not seventeen, 17 refers to the period, the age, or the life-span of what is rupa. Once arisen a rupa lasts for 17 moments of citta but it doesn't mean that 17 moments experience the object because bhavanga really starts from the atitabhavanga. Just to show that when it's there, when rupa arises, when it will end and go, fall away.

So that rupa which arises with the birth consciousness lasts for 17 moments and it's gone. That's why it doesn't mean that 17 moments experienced an object. Only those which are not bhavanga can experience the object and if we assume that a rupa or an object is experienced by 17 moments of citta that's not right because that was the age or the period or the life-span of rupa which lasts for 17 moments no matter it arises with patisandhi citta, bhavanga citta.

With patisandhi citta, it goes on for 17 moments of citta and then falls away. So the moment of bhavanga, fast asleep, nothing appears but it arises and experiences, which means it's not death yet, not death moment. But it does not experience the object through the six doorways. No dreaming, no world, bhavanga performs its function. So what citta can see? The first thing is about seeing because each moment of that which experiences perform its proper function. Like bhavanga cannot experience any object through the six doorways at all but experiences that which is unknown in this life because it's the object of last life, before death. No one can change that moment but as soon as it's not bhavanga it experiences an object.

So after bhavanga what citta is there, just after the flux of bhavanga. āvajjana citta (adverting consciousness). And the first process [after rebirth] cannot be a sense-door process because it thinks or it experiences the same object which is accumulated to be object of citta which does not experience the object of bhavanga. It has to be a mind-door process, who knows. Unknown. So from then on there are many [mind-door] processes until the process of sense-door process. So bhavanga cannot experience visible object, bhavanga cannot experience sound.

The first citta which experiences the object which is not the object of bhavanga has to experience that which is impinging on the sense-door. It has to impinge on one of the sense-doors. The sense-door can be the eye-door or ear-door of whatever. And it does not smell it does not see it just knows that something's there. Like we are in the house and the guest is at the gate. We don't know yet who's there but there is the idea of someone's there and that is the function of āvajjana citta, just begin to wake up and know something's there but not experiencing it, not yet seeing hearing smelling tasting. Only a moment, so can it be known? Not by us. This is the great difference between the understanding of one who is not the Sammasambuddho, even a pacchekabuddha does not have such great virtues. So we learn about who can know and taught us to understand the way dhamma is, no one and no self and no thing because it's only different realities, paramattha dhammas, absolute truths.

So as the āvajjana citta has fallen away it conditions the seeing or the hearing instantly after it has fallen away. So only a moment of seeing which really sees, performing the function of experiencing just that, the characteristic which impinges on the eyes or ears or whatever, only one moment and then falls away, which conditions the next citta which experiences the same object but does not see. That's why a moment of seeing a moment of sampaticchana a moment of santirana, by conditions. Anantara paccaya and samanantara paccaya nobody can make it different from the way it is. So when we talk about seeing, only a moment of seeing, can it be a flower or thing? Not at all.