Sutamayapañña, the benefit of hearing is understanding

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(20m)

Azita: My question is about the different terminology we have for pañña, for example pariyatti, patipatti, pativedha, and then sutamaya pañña, cintāmaya pañña... so is pariyatti the same as sutamaya pañña?

A. Sujin: That's why we have to study carefully each word, for example, what is suta? Hearing, right? Maya? The benefit of hearing is understanding, otherwise it's useless just to hear without considering whether it's true and what is about. For example now we are talking about seeing right now, and suta heard the word, maya understands, the success, the result, the benefit of hearing is to understand. When it is heard and no understanding it cannot be sutamaya pañña, but maya is the way it works to have understanding of the word said about whatever is now appearing. Sutamaya pañña doesn't mean that "let's hear again and again", but no considering no understanding, that's useless. But suta, hearing and it brings about the understanding, so clear about that word, little by little. So it's right understanding which arises from hearing. When there is hearing but there's no right understanding, it cannot be sutamaya pañña, it can only be suta, it cannot be maya: the source, the benefit, the success of listening is understanding that which is now heard, as it is. For example seeing, only one word, seeing, and suta, hearing that, about: what is there? before that seeing cannot be known, no hearing about the truth of it. But when there is the word talking, saying about it, how many moments we don't know, many times, it can bring about the understanding of only seeing, as it is, as no one there at all. And it's not yet direct understanding of seeing, but it is the moment of hearing again and again, until the confidence of the truth of the words which talk about seeing can be successful, pañña is there, knowing this so true that no one can change it, but who can understand it depends on many many conditions. Without attention, not seeing the benefit, one might not be interested in hearing at all, but someone heard the word and there are conditions to be interested, to understand that. Chanda, a reality, is there.

So, each word of the Buddha teaches about what is there now, not only one, but many many things, but in order to understand the reality that is now appearing clearly, it has to be just one word at a time, and when that succeeds, it's successful, it is the skillfulness in listening and understanding the truth, not just the word, not just how many words about that, but the truth of that now, as it is. It is the saccañāna of that level of hearing, to understand the truths, the four noble truths. Saccañāna from hearing, considering, directly. Because the realities are very subtle, if there is no hearing enough we take them to be just very easy. To concentrate on it, to understand it, to develop by one's own, that's not the way at all, because the truth is very very difficult or so hard to understand, because it's covered up by ignorance from eons and eons and eons ago. Even right now, the words of the truth from the Buddha begin to just turn it up, to see what is there which is covered up from eons and eons ago. Just to talk about that which is now there, while no one [else] talked about it at all, not understanding the truth of it, so how can there be any words about it when there's no understanding, but when the Buddha had enlightened, he taught and showed the truth, so [that] anyone who hears about this can begin to understand the truth, little by little. And it's not known as it is, just one at a time yet, that's why it is the intellectual understanding about seeing right now, sutamaya pañña.

But if one listen and listen, [but] not enough careful considering, how can there be more pañña about each word as it is, as no self at all, implanted little by little there. The seed is there to grow up when there are more conditions, fertilizer, hearing again, not just hearing, thinking over it as well. So when pañña, right understanding, is there it can understand what the other things are, little by little, the same. Seeing today, seeing yesterday, seeing tomorrow, seeing next life, exactly that quality which arises, the nature of that which just arises to see. So how can it be anyone? This is the way to develop the path leading to enlightening the truth of this moment as it is. That's why it's so very very subtle, very very profound, no one can think about it, all dhammas are there unknown, are working. Their functions, different ones, citta is not cetasika and so on. So much to know, to learn, to understand it as no one at all, otherwise the idea of I is there. But seeing now, just talking about seeing, it's gone, unknown, and what continues, unknown, succeeding so very very rapidly, no gap in between. That's why they all appear as different signs or nimitta, shape and form, just like now, covered up. Until sutamaya pañña is more and more, more confident, to be confident of the truth.

A. That's wonderful, Ajahn, thank you. So my next question would be what is cintāmaya pañña?

Su. Okay, when it's not moment of hearing there can be moments of thinking, and usually there is thinking about other things, not about that which is appearing at all, in a day. When the moment of hearing is gone and then there are conditions for thinking about other things, instantly, even while one is hearing [?] as something. And so, even when there's enough understanding, intellectual understanding, about seeing right now. Seeing right now conditions the moment of understanding or considering seeing, but when we don't use the word seeing, what about thinking? It thinks about other things, instantly. So when the understanding of the truth at level of intellectual understanding is enough, it can condition moment of thinking about that which has been heard, by conditions. No one can try and then think about it, but it's there by conditions. To think about other things, so many many moments in a day, no moment of thinking about that which is heard after it's [been] heard, right now. That's why, when there are enough conditions, there can be less thinking about other things, but thinking [instead] of that which has been heard, and it can condition moment of picking up the book on Dhamma and read it carefully and understanding it, and then conditions for other thoughts again, all the time, by conditions. That's why it takes quite a long long time to understand that it's not under anyone's control at all, by conditions only, to have more understanding about anatta, uncontrollable. Even the idea of uncontrollable can bring about a little more understanding of no me, that's why each moment is conditioned by so many conditions, and the condition of hearing the truth is one, which is conditioning now, to see the value of listening of understanding the truth, otherwise it's just like the blind person, or living in a dream world all the time.

Because we think that this is so true, I'm here! But actually, without the realities, without seeing hearing thinking hardness and softness, how can there be the I, thinking of that, ignorance, that it's me who sees when there's seeing, because of not understanding seeing as it is, not understanding anything at all. That's why how long it will take from intellectual understanding to higher understanding? little by little again, and at each different level.

A. Again, that's wonderful Ajahn, thank you so much.

Su. My pleasure is anyone's understanding, so much in this life.

A. I know there's another, bhāvanāmaya pañña, what is that?

Su. What is bhāvana?

A. The development of pañña, to know more and more what is real and what is not real.

Su. Right understanding is a reality, different from wrong understanding. So we learn about anything there, but usually we use the word with ignorance, not understanding it as it is, but when there is that, nothing is there, only conditioned realities arising and falling away, never to return at all. And this is bhāvana, beginning to develop right understanding. So actually bhāvana is the development of understanding, from intellectual understanding to the direct understanding, and to realizing the truth, pativedha. Otherwise, without the intellectual understanding, how can there be direct understanding of that which is now appearing. For example hardness, no understanding at all, it's gone, just hard and then gone, no understanding. But when there's enough understanding to condition moments of understanding that when it's there, that when it's there, hardness is there, and there is understanding that. This is the development stage by stage, from sutamaya pañña, cintāmaya pañña, which conditions bhāvanāmaya pañña, direct awareness. But it begins from intellectual understanding, and it understands that that is not the precise understanding of understanding just only that which appears, for example seeing, not understanding seeing now yet, as the moment when it shows up as it is, realizing the truth, penetrating the truth of it.

So bhāvana is the development of right understanding of the truth of reality right now. Without hearing, sutamaya pañña, intellectual understanding, there's no condition for such moment in samsara, not just only in this life, any life, without pañña. To understand the different world, because this is the world of nimitta and that is the world of realities, they are there. Ignorance conditions the world of nimitta and pañña conditions the world of truth, of that which is just one reality different from the other, each one arises by conditions and then gone, never to return, no matter we call it birth or death, exactly the same.

A. Again, that's wonderful Ajahn thank you very much, very very helpful.

Su. And that's the way to understand life in very normal way, as it is, no one can make anything arise at all, no matter pañña or ignorance, attachment, aversion, whatever. And this is the benefit of hearing the truth, and pañña begins to develop, right understanding. And little by little attachment can be known. To go on the wrong path, without attachment and ignorance, it's impossible, to go wrong. But when there is still ignorance and attachment, no one can stop the wrong path. That's why even to have right understanding of each moment is so valuable, because without it there's no way, no conditions to understand what is now appearing as it's not there anymore, from moment to moment, by conditions. As long as there are conditions seeing sees, when there are no conditions seeing cannot arise, no seeing, no me who sees, no matter when. This is the study of Dhamma, it's not the word, but without the word of the Enlightened One no one can have such understanding of that which is now appearing, no wise word, true word, which explains it as it is.

A. You spoke a moment ago Ajahn, about thinking, we listen to the Dhamma and there is thinking about what is heard I want to hold that thought and keep thinking about the Dhamma, and then I think that's trying to control. So I often will just let that thought go, but then it's not me to let it go, it's just gone already.

Su. Because pañña can begin to understand that the idea of self is [there] any time, until there can be the understanding of that which is now appearing, even from just thinking about that which is heard. But the I is still there, the five khandhas, the feeling, vedana, sañña, and sankhara khandha and even the citta that is there at this moment, they are all I, from life to life. That's why pañña begins to see the moment of attachment and the moment of understanding, little by little, as not self, and understands that it's wrong to try to control, because one might think that "oh I control it", but no understanding of the truth, so lobha is there, "I can".

A. Yes that is true, lobha arises a lot in the day.

Su. Yes, and that which has to be eradicated before other things it's lobha with wrong understanding of self.


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Transcript updated Sept 2021
Video image: Detail of Eastern Gate, Sanchi Great Stupa