Hetu, different conditions of kamma and different vipaka (part 2)

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[Ann] Ajahn, I have a question, last week we were talking about vipaka cittas which experience sense objects, and we were differentiating between vipaka cittas and kusala and akusala cittas because the kusala and akusala cittas do not see or hear, you said something: when it is kusala it cannot be vipaka when it is akusala it cannot be vipaka because the akusala is jati of the reality arising to be hetu and whether it is a hetu but kusala, then you said: that's why kusala hetu can be vipaka, but akusula hetu cannot be vipaka. Can you talk more about that please, that would be helpful, Ajahn.

[A. Sujin] That's why we have to study just one citta at a time, for example moha[-mula citta]: how many cetasikas arising with it? And how many cetasikas arise with lobha[-mula citta]? And how many cetasikas arise with dosa[-mula citta]? Is it enough or strong enough to condition akusala vipaka with the akusala hetu? Impossible. Because akusala hetu cannot be vipaka, this is the difference: kusala hetu can be vipaka, but the akusala hetu cannot be vipaka, by way of what conditions? Not just only: it cannot be or it can be, but by what conditions, by way of what conditions? For example, how many akusala vipakas are there? No matter in what world, at any time, how many akusala vipakas is there or are there, together with citta? There are only... how many akusala vipakas? Ahetukas: they cannot arise with hetu, and they're less than kusala vipakas.

Shall we talk about just one citta at a time? For example, how many cetasikas arise with akusala moha-mula citta? We don't have to count but it's less because it arises without lobha and dosa, right? And that which arises with lobha[-mula citta] and dosa[-mula citta] cannot arise with moha-mula citta: ego (mana, conceit) cannot arise because lobha cannot arise [with moha-mula citta]. That's why when it conditions the vipaka since the cetasikas which arises with moha-mula citta it's not strong enough, many enough to condition more cetasikas. And the cause is cause, it cannot be the result for akusala citta.

So we have to study what are the causes, the hetus: because the moha-mula citta, how many hetu-cetasikas? It is moha-mula citta, but how many hetus arise with moha-mula citta? Only one, so the [akusala] result cannot just [have] as many cetasikas as the kusala [result] because the moment of kusala needs more cetasikas to be wholesome citta, so it can condition more vipakas than akusala kamma. And what are the akusala vipakas? Only seven, no more than that, is that not enough? Only seven akusala vipakas, for no matter how strong kamma is there as condition. Would anyone like to have more? So we have to understand the function of each citta, the akusala vipaka, seeing unpleasant object, hearing smelling tasting touching: five, and two more: sampaticchana, receiving the object, otherwise it couldn't be known or it couldn't be experienced as something, and after sampaticchana there must be santirana, as vipaka.

So, all together seven akusala vipaka, which one can perform the function of rebirth, patisandhi? Seeing cannot, hearing cannot, sampaticchana cannot because it just receives the object: it experience the object after hearing or seeing it, only that, just after it, not strong enough. So the strongest of akusala vipakas which can condition birth must be santirana. It is vipaka, akusala vipaka, only one citta can perform the [function of] patisandhi citta for all kinds of beings which are the result of unwholesome kamma, in hell, in the animal plane and so on.

So, we have to understand that, no matter how strong akusala kamma is, it can produce only seven akusala vipakas. So we talk about the akusala kamma and its vipaka, the seven cittas which are vipaka, akusala vipaka, and the cetasikas which can arise with these akusala vipakas, that's all, see, in a day.

Because after birth kamma produce or condition results to experience unpleasant objects through eyes ears nose tongue and body, that's all, as vipaka. Painful feeling, vedana which is vipaka, akusala vipaka vedana, not enough? Should be more? Or pain is so very painful, unbearable sometimes, no matter when it arises, with anyone, it has to be such painful feeling.

But for kusala kamma it does not arise very often as akusala citta, it needs more factors to condition its arising, at least 19 cetasikas, but there are more when there are other forms of kusala. That's why it can produce more kusala vipakas, but it has to be according to the level of kusala.

Just beginning to understand what is there in life after death: seeing hearing smelling tasting touching conditioned by kusala kamma or akusala kamma, but kusala kamma can produce or can condition more results. That's why people or deva or brahma were born differently by planes and by cetasikas which arise depending on the kamma which conditioned the patisandhi citta. No one, only the way dhammas are, as kusala or kusala vipaka, akusala or akusala vipaka, or not kusala nor akusala but as kiriya.

All are now, seeing is kusala vipaka or akusala vipaka, and [so the] citta after it. And then kusala or akusala, it's time to arise, it arises by conditions.

So we've talked about the different conditions of kamma and different vipaka because kusala kamma cannot be akusala kamma, and there are many degrees or levels of kusala: kāmāvacara, rūpāvācara, arūpāvācara and lokuttara. That's why there are more cetasikas arising with the kusala vipaka.

First part: Life is that which experiences the object

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Video image: Railing details, Bharhut