Kamma, nobody can choose any plane to be born
Excerpt from the Dhamma discussion in English (and Chinese) with Ajahn Sujin on Zoom on Sun Jul 27th 2025.
Mp3 audio file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p7f5PfOLXa9VhdKBh_02eXC9i-uB3pCn
Nobody can choose any plane to be born
[Vincent] Ajahn, I was asking Da Zhuang about kamma.
[A. Sujin] Is there kamma now? Is there vipaka now? [Yes.]
That's why we learn to understand what is there, this moment, now. So what is the first moment in life, kamma or vipaka? [Vipaka.]
Why is it vipaka? Because nobody can choose any plane to be born at all. Each moment is conditioned. So there can be understanding of the truth of each moment, little by little. After birth, what citta is there? [Bhavanga citta.]
By the same kamma or by different kamma? [By the same kamma.]
Can there just be only bhavangas all day? [No.]
And why not? We are just talking about the patisandhi citta and the moment of bhavanga following. Whether it's conditioned by the same kamma or by different kamma, the bhavanga and the patisandhi citta. Just patisandhi citta and bhavanga, on and on and on, just born to live. That's why we learn to understand from moment to moment, beginning from the birth moment and the bhavanga. We have to understand from the very beginning of each moment in life.
Nobody can know what kamma conditioned this moment of seeing or hearing
Can the kamma which conditioned bhavanga be different from the kamma which conditions patisandhi citta? [No, they are the same.]
That's why to be born a cat, it has to be a cat, by that kamma, until death. kamma conditions birth to live on and on until death, by the same kamma. The patisandhi citta, the bhavanga and the death consciousness, cuti-citta, must be conditioned by the same kamma. But the kamma which condition birth consciousness and bhavangas, doesn't just condition only those. It also conditions other moments, which are the result of the same kamma as well. Just the moments of birth and bhavangas are not enough to be the result of that kamma. So, what other moments are the result of the same kamma which conditions birth and bhavangas? So, the same kamma, which conditions birth consciousness and bhavanga, can also condition the moment of seeing in that life, as its result. Being born as a human being, the result of a kusala kamma, so the seeing moment, hearing, smelling, tasting, and touching, should also be moment of kusala vipaka, experiencing only the pleasant objects. And other kammas also conditions other moments of seeing, hearing, smelling unpleasant objects too. So, the kamma is covered up and the vipaka is also covered up. Because who knows this moment, for what kind of kamma it's time, whether the same kamma as the patisandhi citta or a different kamma. That's why, can anyone know what kamma conditioned this moment of seeing or hearing? Is there doubt? [No.]
But it's just understanding what is the kamma and what is the result. Because just being born to live, to see, to hear and on and on, but after seeing and hearing, it's not the result of kamma. It's the moment of the accumulated kusala and akusala, being conditioned to arise after seeing, hearing and so on. No one can make kusala vipaka or akusala vipaka arising at a given time, all depends on dhammas. But at moment of experiencing the unpleasant object, the conditions for its arising has to be the akusala kamma. In what life and what kind of kamma, it's not known, but beginning to understand each moment as no one, all are dhammas conditioned to be by so many different conditions, near conditions or the far conditions. So, does anyone know what kamma is conditioning seeing and hearing right now?
Accumulating what is there now little by little, no matter it's kusala or akusala
[Vincent] I think Da Zhuang it's still a bit unclear about lobha, how it gets accumulated.
[A. Sujin] Are we talking about lobha now or not now? [Because of the confusion regarding the accumulation of lobha.]
Little by little. What does Da Zhuang like? [He like the traditional Chinese writing.]
Okay. What about yesterday? Did he like this too? And tomorrow will he still like this? [Not sure.]
Really? So, he changes, right? [Sometimes I don't feel like it.]
Does he like what is seen and seeing and hearing and the sound and the five sense-door's objects? [Yes.]
That's why we have to understand each moment of each reality. For the anagami, the pañña of that degree, does not condition any attachment to any object of the five doorways. How can there be that moment of becoming Anagami, no more attachment to the five sense-door's objects? Is it possible not to have any attachment to the sensuous object as before? When will there be such degree of understanding which has no more attachment to the sensuous objects? [It's only to the degree of understanding dhammas as anatta.]
How come? Can it be developed? [Yes.] Is it now developing? [Yes.] So, no doubt about the accumulation of what is there, little by little, no matter it's kusala or akusala, right now. [Yes.]
Learning to be truthful to the truth of this moment
No doubt anymore, but right understanding is not strong and firm enough. That's why we listen again and again to understand how much understanding is there of what is now appearing. It's not understanding the truth, the nature of this moment, it's only the first round of ariya-sacca. And now there is the understanding of kamma and vipaka, but this level of understanding, the intellectual understanding, it's not enough because it's not yet the moment of understanding the nature of what is there as not-self. So, is it possible to really understand the quality, the nature of seeing as no one and nothing at all?
So, at the moment of experiencing kamma, what is the nature of that? [At the moment of experiencing kamma, the nature is the intention.]
Can it be known? Can it be realized? Can it be directly experienced? [It can be realized, it does not belong to anyone.]
That's why it's sacca-parami, whatever is heard and studied now can be object of realization, the third round of the ariya-sacca. Without learning to be truthful to the truth of this moment, how can there be truth to the reality when it appears? So now, it's not yet realizing the nature of cetana or kamma, but it can be when there is more understanding, to let go of clinging, wishing, wanting to experience such and such. But the understanding of anatta gets clearer and clearer little by little. [Yes, this is very important.]
Only lokuttara kamma conditions its result instantly as soon as it falls away
Is there kamma now? Doesn't it arise with each moment of citta? [Yes.]
When it arises with seeing, what kind of cetana is there? [Vipaka.]
Yes. Can the cetana which arises with seeing condition any result? [No.]
Why not? [Because it's already a vipaka, not a kamma to condition future vipaka.]
That's it. Because kamma conditioned it to arise to be the result, so it cannot be condition for further results. While there is deep sleep, is there cetana? [Yes, there is.]
That's why there are two kinds of cetana: sahajata-kamma-paccaya... what is it? And saha means together, and jata means arising. It arises together with citta, any moment. So at moment of birth, what kind of cetana is there? It performs the function of cetana which is not kamma which will produce result, isn't it? At moment of thinking, what cetana is there? [Must be kusala cetana or akusala cetana.]
Can it condition or produce its result instantly? The only kamma, which as soon as has fallen away conditions its result instantly, is lokuttara kamma only.
[Vincent] Da Zhuang was giving example, it seems the result is there immediately because the harsh words to each other immediately follow.
[A. Sujin] What result is there after the harsh words? [Receive the harsh words immediately.]
Really? Instantly? Or after many cittas have fallen away, in between? [Yes, there are many cittas arising and passing away in between.]
#Dhammahome source video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHJkMbul_PM