Cetana/Intention—not the path to understand the truth of reality
Excerpt from the Dhamma discussion with Ajahn Sujin on Zoom on Sun Mar 29th 2026 am.
Clear understanding of the reality which we are talking about
[Vincent] There's a question about the soul.
[A. Sujin] Is there soul now? [The soul means that which can experience: citta.]
When there is the understanding of citta — the reality which experiences the object, no matter what words we use, but it has to be right understanding of the reality of that, which is what we are talking about.
So, no matter what idea about the soul we had before, the truth is that soul, since we use that word, means that reality, like that which experiences the object. And in Pali terms, the words of the Buddha, that word is citta. Otherwise, the words of the Buddha about citta can be mixed with the idea of soul as before. That's why we have to have a clear understanding of the reality which we are talking about.
Is citta soul? [Da Zhuang somehow said that kamma is the intention, the cetana.]
Talking about the truth of each reality to understand it more clearly
But we're talking about just one word at a time which represents only one reality at a time, in order to have a clearer understanding of that reality, in order to understand clearly any reality later, one by one. We are talking about the truth of each reality. What is kamma? Is kamma citta, or is kamma a soul?
Is kamma soul? [Not sure; it's not clear if kamma is soul or not.]
That's why we have to understand the reality. Each one has its own characteristic. It cannot be the other at all. Each has its own characteristic to be different from the others because whatever is real is dhamma. Each one which is real is a dhamma. [Da Zhong cannot figure out how kamma is here, now, and then suddenly there.]
No. There is no understanding of kamma. That's why there's the idea of kamma here and kamma there, and so on. But what is it? Is there kamma right now? [He is not clear about what cetana is.]
The two kinds of reality which experience the object
Shall we begin with whether cetana is dhamma or not? [Not quite sure.]
That's why we have to have a clear understanding of reality, in order to understand the truth that they are realities; they have their own characteristics; each one is different. [The characteristic of cetana is intention.]
Is it a dhamma? [Yes, we call that dhamma.]
We call it *that*, or it has its own characteristic, to be a reality. [Yes, it has an unchanging characteristic.]
Okay. Can it experience an object? [Yes.]
Is there cetana at the moment of seeing? [He's not sure if they experience different objects.]
That's why we cannot talk about cetana further if there's not a clear understanding of what cetana really is.
Dhamma is so very subtle; it's so deep that there has to be very careful consideration of one reality at a time to have more understanding of "no-one-there-at-all." Each one is a different dhamma. So, cetana also experience the object, but not as the chief, because it is not the reality which experiences the object clearly.
And this is the difference between the citta and the reality which arises with it, shares the same object, but has a different characteristic and a different function. And they also experience the object, but not as the chief.
That's why there are two kinds of reality which experience the object. Only one can be that which experiences the object clearly. It's conditioned to arise to see clearly the object which is seen.
But the other realities, which also experience the same object, arising together, each one cannot perform the function of that which experiences the object clearly. So they are cetasikas, not citta.
So, does cetana also experience the object? What object? [Now Da Zhong has the idea that cetana does not experience the object.]
At the moment when anger is there, doesn't it experience its object? Now we're talking about another reality, not cetana. Is anger or irritation a reality? [Yes.]
At the moment of getting angry, doesn't anger also experience an object? [Maybe.]
Not maybe. At all. It has to be precise about each reality; otherwise, they're all mixed up. [Da Zhong agreed, but he's not quite sure what cetana exactly does.]
Learning to understand each reality
So, each reality is so very subtle. When it's so slight, very weak, it cannot appear to be known to very little understanding. That's why we learn to understand each reality — to understand it, no matter whether it arises this moment or at other moments.
So, doesn't cetana arise with each citta, at each moment, now? [Yes, but still Da Zhong wants to know what the function of cetana is.]
Right. But we have to proceed little by little, to understand a little more about not only intention or cetana. Is there memory now, remembering? [Yes, there is.]
Okay. What is the function of memory? [To mark, to memorize.]
Okay. And what about the feeling now? Isn't it there too? [Yes.]
So, we begin to understand little by little.
Cetana, the will or the volition to coordinate the other cetasikas
Cetana is the will, or the willing to coordinate the other cetasikas to perform their functions — the intention to coordinate; so it appears as the will or intention to do something when it's there, clearer. Just like, "What are you going to do today?" That is intention or cetana.
So when it arises with each citta, it coordinates, like it wills to do or intends to do: the eyes are closed, and then the eyes open; what is there to open the eyes? Is there any will?
Isn't it related to will by coordinating the other cetasikas to perform their own functions? [Yes, there is.]
That's why it's there unknown, because only one reality can be known at a time. Even there is cetana now, saññā now, feeling now, other cetasikas now, what can be known is only when it is the object of citta.
Cetana, not the path to understand the truth of reality
That's why there are so many different realities; those which experience the object are quite different by their characteristics and the level they perform. The intention to kill, the intention to help — that is cetana. So cetana arises with each citta, performing its function at different moments. So, is there cetana at the moment of speaking, walking, doing, or sitting?
And furthermore, can cetana be the path leading to understand the truth of what is there right now as it is? [It cannot.]
Okay. Is he sure now that cetana arises with each citta?
Mp3 audio file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uOiXdj9a5G9DDUq2wB2S5r7qWL-8o_R4
Dhamma Foundation's source video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afm0AhAKPKk
Italian translation