Dhammas are like things behind a black curtain
Excerpt from the Dhamma discussion with Ajahn Sujin in Bodhgaya, India, on October 17th 2004.
[Jill] You say how important it is to understand sati.
[A. Sujin] Not just sati. [No, all realities.]
Yeah, in order to develop sati. [In the beginning of the development of sati, there is no clear distinction: this is nāma, this is rūpa...]
Excuse me, if it's clear, it's vipassanā ñāṇa, not only the beginning of satipaṭṭhāna. It has to be like this, because all dhammas are like something behind the black curtain. So black and so dark, even though it is now appearing, but the understanding has not grown yet. So when there's no light of understanding, how can the realities behind the black curtain appear? See?
It's like that because it seems so very easy, like "seeing now sees." But the understanding of it as just a reality, if there is no understanding of what the Buddha taught in the very beginning, it's just as if there's nothing there behind the black curtain because it seems like everyday life, that there are people and things and I all the time, but it's not like that at all.
So paññā has to grow little by little, so very little, because each time there is seeing and hearing, there is always ignorance and attachment after seeing and hearing. All the time.
Only one way, detachment with right understanding of the reality which appears
So why didn't the Buddha incline to teach after his enlightenment? Because it's against the current of life, because it has to start with detachment from the very beginning, because it's very difficult to become detached from everything that one is used to being attached to, from life to life, for eons and eons, not just this one life.
So it's so very difficult even to have such a beginning of detachment—from not knowing, not understanding what it's about and how to develop it. Because many people would like to get a result in this life or as soon as there is the understanding of realities, but that is not the way. Because where is the attachment? Right there. It comes in all the time as soon as there are conditions for it to arise through any doorway.
Not going away from this moment without any understanding
So one has to be wise to the moment of being attached and remember all the time that it has to be only one way, detachment with right understanding of the reality which appears. So how very long the way has to go. One has to be so very patient. So that one can understand the core of the Teachings. Being patient comes first. Khanti pen tama ying ying in Thai. Because without khanti, one will never be successful at all.
So it has to be paññā which knows that it's not by the "I" who tries so hard to get the understanding, but it's the understanding which will gradually eliminate the idea of self from the very beginning; not doing, not wanting, not going away from this moment without any understanding.
So when we talk about nāma and rūpa, we don't talk about what's in the book only, whether it's citta, cetasika, or rūpa. But now we have known from books; we learn about reality in daily life, in everyday life. Because when there is the beginning of life, paṭisandhi, the birth consciousness, there must be many different types of citta arising from time to time. And without understanding it, what is there? Ignorance and wrong view of self, all the time.
So it's just about keeping on developing understanding in order to become detached. Just in order to become detached from wanting to do, wanting to get. But developing understanding—that's the only way. Because only understanding can work its way, being more and more detached from the reality which appears with just understanding of the characteristic of reality as we have heard or as we have learnt, that there are only two types of reality, not self. They are rūpa, which cannot experience, but is the object of experiencing, and there is attachment to it instantly.
Just for seeing visible object and hearing sound and everything that goes away
So in one's life, in the plane of the five khandhas, there are rūpas through the five doorways just for attachment, without understanding. So right understanding learns to understand that without all these realities appearing, there is no citta. But when citta arises, these are now appearing. For example, visible object right now is absolute visible object because it's that dhātu, element, which can impinge on the eye sense, not on the other senses. So that citta can see it. Just that.
So we have been living for quite a long, long time, eons and eons, and when there is the understanding of all these things... just for this? Just for seeing visible object and hearing sound and everything that goes away. See? All the time unknowingly, just for this, in the circle of life and death, without understanding.
So it's not a matter of trying so hard to develop it, but understanding it, and it will lead to direct awareness. And then one knows that it's not you who is aware, but it's time for right awareness to arise, and it is aware at that moment. So understanding begins to know that it's so true. Hardness is just hardness. It's not visible object.
Going away from this moment to select other objects for understanding
So when we talk about the noble truth—this is one—the hardness, visible object, and everything in life. Just learn to understand that they are true. They are so true—when? When one appears through one doorway. Just that, only that. And this is the way to help or to support awareness and other kusala, not just satipaṭṭhāna. And this is the way to eliminate the idea of the "I" who is trying so hard because as long as one is trying, for years and for so long, it doesn't work! Because it's so foolish to do something without any result at all. Better to lie down or go and have something instead. See?
So we just come and talk about realities, just to have paññā understand better and better, and paññā works its way. It becomes detached from wrong view, becomes detached from clinging, becomes detached from going away from this moment to select other objects for right understanding.
So it's not the easy way, because people do not understand this. As soon as they hear about satipaṭṭhāna, they'd like to do it instantly, trying so hard to get it. But that is wrong. Quite wrong, because it's the self who's trying.
Āyatanas, without these coming together nothing in the world could appear
And when they learn about the āyatanas, the dhātu, and the paṭicca-samuppāda, they can memorize all this, but not understand that when anything appears, that object is also āyatana, and the eye sense or ear sense is also āyatana. Why? Because without these coming together, there cannot be hearing or anything in the world appearing at all.
So we can understand āyatanas not just by the book, but by awareness and by understanding the characteristic of realities. It goes deeper and deeper to the moment when there is no self and when realities appear and the understanding of the āyatanas is there. So it's not just the word in the book, no matter whether it's about dhātu, element.
Because hardness, we can say it's an element without any direct understanding or direct awareness. But when it's there, paññā develops to see that it is real, so it's dhātu. We don't have to use any word because at the moment of enlightenment, all ariyas, like the Buddha himself, had no word, no thinking. But it's the direct experiencing of the true nature of realities which cannot be hidden anymore because paññā has developed so that reality can appear to paññā. Reality arises and appears, but it goes away so fast. But we don't have to think about that.
Just develop understanding by knowing the moment when awareness arises and when there is no awareness. That's all. This is the beginning.
[Nina] It's so difficult to know the difference.
[A. Sujin] When awareness does not arise, it's impossible to think about it. But whenever it arises, one knows the difference instantly. That it's different when touching and hardness appear, and there is no thinking about the dhātu or the reality right then because one always thinks about it as something all the time, and it passes so fast.
So it depends on direct awareness to be aware, even just very little and very slight, because there is no change, no difference. Just then, when it is aware, and that's all. Becoming detached again little by little, little by little.
Detachment by understanding, not another time of trying to become detached
[Jonothan] Earlier you were saying, develop paññā to become detached from reality.
[A. Sujin] From clinging. Because without understanding, how can there be detachment? [Right.]
There can never be detachment by the self, or by the idea of self. [Right, but what is the importance of becoming detached as opposed to understanding the true nature of reality?]
When there is no understanding, is there attachment or detachment? [Attachment.]
But when there is understanding, one does not know the moment when it develops detachment by understanding. By itself. It's not another time of trying to become detached. [Right. So a moment of understanding of reality...]
No-self, so it's there; it understands at the same time. It becomes detached, and it grows little by little. [Is it attachment to realities that is the problem of wrong view, that exacerbates or makes us have more wrong view?]
We are talking about wrong view of self, right? But when it does not arise, can there be the understanding of the reality of wrong view of self? But when there is awareness, you don't have to make anything arise at all. There can be wrong view arising, so awareness can know right then the characteristic of nāma, the mental element, no-self, which is there, but that is the element of "I" being there.
So one sees realities, as we're used to talking about, like lobha and wrong view and everything, when there is awareness of that particular one. So we could say that we all have wrong view of self, but that's only words. But when there is awareness, it shows that at that moment it's the clinging, it's the self there.
Even hardness here, when there is nothing in the world at all, just hardness. I, it's still I. It's me. It's mine. And when it's heat, like someone has a high temperature, fever or illness, and heat is there, it's me. See? It's me.
And then we know that it's not only about words, but when that particular object appears, and there is still the idea of self, we know that paññā will eliminate it when it knows more clearly that it's not me. It's only dhātu. It's only a reality.
Lobha always hinders: it's the black curtain
[Nina] I have trouble, really, with the worry being me, and you said it's only nāma.
[A. Sujin] But it's the truth. Remember that it's the truth. No matter how we think this way or that way, the truth is that. So coming to the truth little by little to see what is true. [But maybe we are not ready yet to accept it.]
Right. Because we know a lot about theory. We know a lot from books, but it's not the direct awareness of anyone in a day. So we know that only when it develops in a day, it arises, and it turns out to be realities instead of people and things. [But that's the most difficult.]
It's so difficult; you're praising the wisdom of the Buddha by saying this. Otherwise, using the term Buddha would have no meaning.
[Jill] Nina, because of your accumulations of worry about your beloved's health, you can't stop it.
[A. Sujin] The purpose is not to stop thinking or worrying about him. But understanding any moment as it is. Who doesn't care for the dear ones as long as attachment is there? We know the different degrees of ariyas. Sotāpanna is not sakadāgāmi, not anāgāmi, not an arahant. [Yes, but we still have this trouble...]
You do not have troubles. [So long as we don't know the difference between nāma and rūpa, we cannot yet really be aware of worry as non-self.]
Yes, yes. [Because we don't know the difference between nāma and rūpa.]
Yes! Because when it does not know, it does not know. You cannot do anything.
[No. It's the first stage of insight. We get stuck there.]
It's like a test in everyday life, whether or how much you cling to the result, or you do not cling now to the sense objects, but you cling to knowing the difference between nāma and rūpa. And it hinders instantly. And so one knows that lobha is there. Lobha always hinders: it's the black curtain.
Mp3 audio file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wfp_KjhSOtlUD83RXa9nwGmBRQ8Fa3bY
Source audio: https://www.dhammastudygroup.org/audio/india2004/A_BodhGaya_01.mp3