First process of life, through mind door

Transcript from 2014-5-26-pm.mp3 (57m) by Chanti, edited by Alberto.

[Q.] Ajahn, can you please explain about the process of cittas experiencing an object?

[A. Sujin] What doorway? Mind door or sense door? Mind door comes first because the first door, after birth, is mind door, always mind door.

[....] So, what is meant by sense door, mind door and process? The first moment of life, the rebirth consciousness, does it experience any object? Yes, right, through what doorway? In order to understand what is meant by doorway or process, there must be the understanding of: citta arises, no matter what is its object, it experiences just an object. There is no citta without an object, because citta arises and experiences. So there must be the object which citta experiences. No matter when. 

Everyone knows the moment of being fast asleep: is there citta arising and falling away all the time from moment to moment? At the moment of being fast asleep, who knows? No one at all. Because citta arises and experiences the object - the same object as patisandhi citta, the first moment of life. Because kamma does not produce only one moment of citta which is vipāka. Only one moment of vipāka is not enough to be result of kamma, so kamma produces more than one moment of vipāka. After the moment of rebirth consciousness, which is conditioned by kamma, kamma produces its vipākas, not just only one moment or rebirth consciousness. And the nature of each citta is that whenever it is completely gone it conditions the next moment instantly. While one is fast asleep is there any gap? Nonstop, the arising and falling away of citta, no matter when. From the first moment to the last moment of this life and continuing on to next life too.

And one citta experiences only one object. At this moment of seeing, can the seeing also hear? No, so one can see the rapidity of the succession of the arising and falling away of cittas, all the time, in order to understand the anattaness of everything: no matter it's citta, cetasika or rupa, it needs the very careful study, respectfully, not having one's own idea to think about, because no one can be the Buddha at all.

So, what is the object of the citta which arises after rebirth consciousness? 

[Q.] The same object as rebirth consciousness.

[A. Sujin] Yes. Does the world appear, at the moment of rebirth and bhavanga (life-continuum), which arises after the rebirth consciousness? Does this world appear yet?  Like [when] being fast asleep, nothing appears, but citta is there, arising and falling away by conditions. So, what is the difference between the rebirth consciousness and the moment after it? 

[Q]: They have just different functions. The first one, the function is rebirth. The other one only bhavanga citta.

[A. Sujin] No other rebirth [follows] after the rebirth consciousness. The same kamma which produces the rebirth consciousness, produces also the bhavangas [during] the whole life.  The world does not appear yet, nothing appears at those moments of rebirth consciousness and bhavangas. Last night, were there bhavangas? At those moments nothing appeared at all, right? But even right now, there is also bhavanga, always unknown. When the rūpa impinges on the base, no matter it's the eye base or ear base, it lasts only for 17 moments of citta, those (17) fall away. So, what happens, after that? What arises? 

[Q.] Bhavanga citta.

[A. Sujin] Yes, hearing cannot arise, anything [in a process] cannot arise yet because that [rupa] has just fallen away, instantly. And then bhavanga has to arise in between each process, so life [continuum] is just the stream of bhavanga: nothing appears and then something appears (in a process) and [then] disappears, again, bhavangas: nothing's appearing and then disappearing. So very rapidly that it seems like everything's arising together now.

So, when we talk about processes, we talk about the cittas which are not bhavangas. The world begins to appear as object which citta experiences. Let’s talk about moments after rebirth consciousness: there were many, many, uncountable bhavangas, remember [them]? Because those moments were in the womb, who could remember what happened? But when one uses the word newly born, a newly born baby, sometimes we can see that baby smiling or crying. Who knows what is the object of that very moment conditioning smiling or crying? Does anyone cry in a dream? Or laugh in a dream? (Yes) Really? Because sometimes there's crying or laughing, and that moment is not a dream, like [for] the baby, we can think about anything, but since it cannot condition the movement of the body, it's only dreaming or thinking.

That’s why the first process of life, when the world [first] appears, is through mind door. No seeing, no hearing, no smelling, no tasting, no touching, yet. Because what is accumulated in the mind can condition the moment of thinking about that, by conditions, to be forgotten. Because cittas always keeps on experiencing, so many many objects. So, how many objects can be remembered? We don’t know when we were young, as newly born baby, what was our first process.

So the process is the moment of citta arising and experiencing an object which is different from that [at] moment of bhavanga. So, from then on, bhavanga is not patisandhi citta [anymore], and the process of cittas is not bhavanga because it experiences an object different from bhavanga and patisandhi citta. 

So, what is meant by mind door? It does not depend on the eye, ear, nose, tongue and body at all, when we talk about the process of cittas which experiences an object different than bhavanga’s object, [from] the stream of bhavangas arising and falling away without interruption, yet. In a dream... why do we have very fantasy dreams? Some people dream about flying up in the air, how come such object of thinking?

So, the first process is the mind door process, [in] which all objects or experiences have been accumulated to condition such thinking, with attachment, always attachment, no matter in what plane. Because there is always attachment in a day, in a process, in a day and so many processes in a day, and what about two days, four days, or the whole life? All experiences are accumulated, when there are kusala or akusala moments. 

So, each is different. For example, a baby smiling: who knows what his/her object is? Each is different, quite different. Even the four primary rūpas arising with the visible object, and the odor and the taste and the nutrition; only eight indivisible rūpas. But they can condition different kind of plants, flowers, colors... [And] citta and cetasikas are much more amazing than the rūpas. That is why each one is different. No matter in what world. Even thinking. 

And who does not have attachment? The person who does not have attachment does not have condition to be reborn, so the first process in life is mind door process with attachment. Does the citta which experiences the object through mind door arises and falls away? Always gone, like any moment, so it can be moment for other doorways to experience objects, after that. Can any moment come back? So where is the I? Where is the self?  It's only thinking and clinging, with wrong understanding. 

So, would you like to know the process, from moment to moment? Because the mind door process is not the sense door process. There can be understanding of the process from moment to moment, like: what is the first moment in a process?

[…]

[A. Sujin] So, shall I introduce citta, one at a time, to be known?

Now everyone knows about patisandhi citta: vipāka the result of a kamma; without kamma there cannot be patisandhi citta at all. It is only once in lifetime, no more patisandhi after it has fallen away, but it is succeeded by the same type of vipāka, produced on and on and on, unknowingly. 

So when we talk about process, it means that cittas which are [in] the process [do] not experience the same object as bhavangas. Like now, a moment of seeing it's not bhavanga, but seeing, or hearing is not the first citta of the process, so now we learn about another type of citta (pañca-dvara-avajjana citta, sense door adverting consciousness)

Patisandhi citta, bhavanga, bhavanga... experience the same object, but without the cittas which are process, nothing could appear, and the first citta which has a different object than bhavanga's is also conditioned. 

So, without the visible object impinging on the eyesense as condition, could there be the moment of knowing what is there which is not the object of bhavanga?

Thinking about seeing right now, before that it was bhavanga, bhavanga... If the visible object didn't impinge on the eye base, and without the kamma which produced seeing, there could not be seeing right now.

But the first moment in the process is not seeing, it is just that which realizes or knows that something's impinging on [the sense/base]: if it is sound it impinges on the earsense, if it is visible object it impinges on the eyesense. No seeing, no hearing yet, it just begins to know, to be conscious of what is there. After it has fallen away it conditions seeing to see what is that which is visible object. If it is sound which is impinging on the earsense, bhavanga cannot experience sound, but that which begins to be conscious knows that something is there. And after it has fallen away, hearing arises to hear the sound which is impinging on the earsense. 

So the first citta of the process, which experiences [an] object different from bhavanga's, must be this citta.  It is not vipāka because it is conditioned by the object (rūpa) which impinges on the base, so this citta can be conscious of what appears through the five sense doors only. So, now we know that before seeing, there is the citta which is the first of that process, which is just conscious of what (rūpa- object) is there; but does not see, does not hear yet. And that is not vipāka because it can experience no matter if is pleasant or unpleasant object, which is not seen or heard yet.

That is why the Buddha used different words for the ten cittas: the seeing, it sees right now; the hearing, it hears right now. Because the citta arising just before cannot see, cannot hear, just knows, or is conscious of what (rūpa- object) is there. No one, no self. The Buddha taught us to have the understanding of the details of each as not self, any conditioned reality is not permanent.

So now, is seeing the first citta of the [seeing] process? No, is it vipāka or what, or kusala/akusala? No, so now, one begins to understand the four types (jatis) of citta. The kusala is not the akusala, not the vipāka, and not the kiriya. Usually we've heard about just the kusala, akusala, and the vipāka, but there is another type of citta, which is not kusala, not akusala, not vipāka and it's [at] the moment of the first citta in the process. Does an arahatta have this citta too? Does a dog also have this type citta? A bird? Whenever there is seeing, before seeing there must be this citta. 

Usually the arahatta does not have kusala and akusala at all. Because of no ignorance, and no unwholesome realities like attachment, aversion, the three roots. So what[ever] he does in his whole life, being an arahatta, cannot produce any result at all. 

So the wholesome cetasikas can be kusala or vipāka, or kiriya. For the worldling-being, there are only two moments, or two types of citta which is kiriya. And that is the citta which we've just talked about, the one that adverts to the object without yet experiencing it as seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting or touching [do]. And it arises before moments of kusala and akusala. In details (after adverting) there are three more moments before kusala and akusala. Who knows about adverting consciousness, that is there before seeing?

What can be known is seeing itself right now, but there must be the first citta  in that process, before seeing. And (after seeing) there are three more moments before kusala and akusala can arise. Just remember, patisandhi citta, bhavanga citta, and adverting consciousness, before seeing, hearing or thinking