Muduta and the six pairs of wholesome realities

(50m)

Tadao: I'd like to know what respect is, if it is a cetasika or not.

A. Sujin: Is it real?

T. I feel it's real.

Su. Ok, wholesome or unwholesome? If one respects something wrong like a tree or a fish, is it wholesome? No. That's why realities have to be so true, that they cannot be changed. At that moment when one has wrong understanding and pays respect to that which is wrong, that is not respect, because wrong understanding is not wholesome, there are no wholesome cetasikas arising at that very moment at all, so it's not respect. But respecting the truth, right or wrong? Not [respecting] the wrong but the right, respect for right view, respect for right conditions or realities, "no one there at all, this is so true", right or wrong? So, it's not just saying about anyone, or any moment, at moment of paying respect, it depends on citta and that very moment, and if someone says that it's right to pay respect to the trees, like in Thailand many many people do that [in Italy too], is that right? If someone says it's right to do that, but is it true? Because of ignorance or because of understanding? But even without understanding, when it's good, wholesome, it can be respect, because respect is the wholesome reality, to goodness, paying respect to parents is good too. So it's not just talking about one reality at a time, without any understanding, it's wrong.

T: So are you saying that respect has many shades, its characteristic changes depending on situations?

Su. So one can see whether respect is wholesome or not wholesome. Understanding the goodness of the other and paying respect to that goodness, right or wrong? But when someone doesn't have any understanding, or has wrong understanding, and you pay respect to that wrong view, is it right or wrong?

T. It's wrong

Su. According to the realities, the citta and cetasikas at that very moment. There can be paying respect to the good, to the right things, it's wholesome even there's no pañña, like children paying respect to their parents. Understanding the goodness of the parents, but at that very moment. The children are taught to do that and later to understand the goodness, to understand what's good and what is not good. Can you pay respect to your friend or your cousin who has wrong view?

T. I respect people in this group.

Su. Okay, because we do not think about his wrongness or whatever his [view] was, but [instead] thinking about his goodness or the way it is, to behave like a cousin and so on, paying respect, in manners, good manners, to pay respect to the old people, something like that, see. It has to be in detail, not just by just saying, but knowing citta at that moment. Some pay respect because one fears the police and so on, that is not wholesome.

T. I meant the respect in terms of dhamma.

Su. In terms of dhamma it has to be one of the cetasika which is wholesome, muduta cetasika. The six pairs of wholesome cetasikas, in Pali, I think that you can read it in the book, the six pairs of wholesome cetasikas [listed in the first paragraph of the Dhammasangani: kāyalahuta and cittalahuta, kāyamuduta and cittamuduta, kāyakammaññata and cittakammaññata, kāyapāguññata and cittapāguññata, kāyujukata and cittujukata]. Because [kusala] citta and cetasikas are not coarse, they're mild and so very... I don't know English enough for a better word...

Sundara: We'd use the word malleable, it's soft and malleable and that's how we describe the word, actually in English we have the word meek and sometimes' got a negative connotation of someone meek but I believe it's related to that word, soft, it's being malleable and pliable and that's how we describe gold also, it's for gold, gold is what's called ductile and it's malleable, it fits in easy, so to speak, to the situation.

A. Sujin: That's why without it kusala cannot arise, wholesome realities cannot arise at all. So muduta arises as kāyamuduta and cittamuduta, one for the citta and the other for cetasikas. They've to arise with each kusala, with all the manners of kusala. Without these, kusala cannot arise, wholesome realities, wholesome citta cannot arise, so, this is muduta.

Jon: So Tadao, I think it comes down to the fact that wholesome respect is appreciation of the wholesome qualities of the person that is the subject of the respect.

T. The point I'd like to make is that we have to develop metta and we can develop metta to everybody, but I somehow feel that people in this group a bit different, they have a sort of special quality, perhaps degree of pañña, and which I appreciate very much :)

A. Sujin: Muduta, see, at the moment of appreciating :)

T. Yes

A. Sujin: This is the understanding of reality which is now, so that later on it can become directly object of right understanding, in order to understand that whatever is there in life, each day, are all dhamma. ...

(1:16m) Sarah: I'd like to understand more about why you are referring in particular to the six pairs of sobhana cetasikas in this regard of respect.

A. Sujin: I think that if we don't just talk about respect, it includes all kinds of wholesomeness, that without these cetasikas it would be impossible for citta to arise to be wholesome, because the accumulation of desire and ignorance it's so great that, even now, if you don't talk about it, it's there all the time, even right now, ignorance about seeing, ignorance about hearing, and so on, all the time, with attachment all the time.

That's why the more understanding of ignorance, that it's so great, that it's the moment that "it's impossible for anyone just trying to do anything", but the understanding of the truth will let go of ignorance little by little, and without these cetasikas any kind of wholesome citta cannot arise at all, only that. It needs all wholesome cetasikas which have to arise with it, at moments of respect, at moments of giving, at moments of whatever, all the same.

Sarah: Right, so just pointing out at any moment of kusala they have to be there, not just that particular kind of kusala. Usually we talk a lot about calmness or passaddhi, but we don't talk much about lahuta, muduta, kammaññata and so on, but they have to be there, there has to be the lightness of the citta, the malleability or wieldiness or whatever terms one wants to use it in order for the citta to be kusala.

A. Sujin: And I think that in a day we just think about that which is far away like jhana and so on, but what about calm in a day? It means that that moment is wholesome, otherwise without enough accumulation of wholesomeness, how can there be such great calm like jhana? So we don't know the cause, the real cause of everything, which is every moment, now. That whatever will be great enough, it has to come from a moment, on and on. That's why, in a day, what moment is calm? Just wanting this, eating that, "it's so very delicious" and so on, "so pretty" and so on, no calmness at all, all day, and we talk about calmness at level of jhana! it's impossible, because of not seeing in the danger of clinging to the object which is experienced in a day, that it's full of attachment and ignorance all day, so how can citta become purer, clean [itself] up, less and less dirty at all? No thought about that, so one's just wishing, keep on thinking about this and that all day, but not understanding the moment of just enough kusala or wholesomeness in a day, eating all the food, no leftovers, because someone will have to clean up and so on.

So many things in a day, it can become little by little, and begin to see that what is more valuable, wholesome moment or unwholesome moment, and how it accumulates on and on, or when there is no understanding or no thought about the others at all. That's why it has to understand the words of the Buddha enough that wholesome moment is so very precious that it can lead to more understanding, because without understanding one lives freely, not caring for the others at all. That's why understanding brings more and more manners of wholesome deeds, or speech, or thoughts. So what is calm, can it be now? And why people in Buddha's time developed calmness, much more than just calmness in daily life.

Sarah: But as you say it has to begin now, there has to be the understanding of the reality at this moment, because if there's no understanding when one speaks or listens whether the citta is kusala or whether there is calm now, then whatever we read about cannot be understood. So it has to be the understanding of the quality of calmness right now.

A. Sujin: And this will condition direct understanding for sure, because it's there more than usual in a day, wholesomeness, and the understanding of the Teachings is just to let go of ignorance, we don't hope for enlightenment at all because it's lobha again, lobha is there all the time. So just listen to the word which can bring about understanding of what is there now, little by little, better than understanding the others'. Usually people think of the others, criticizing them, these manners or those manners, the government and so on, but what about that citta, at the moment when it's there, saying that, thinking about that? More details, more refined, to know, to understand the truth. If that person is not refined enough, it's impossible to understand the Teachings of the Buddha about this moment, its truth, the truth of now.