The world of truth is not like it seems to be

(21m)

A. Sujin: So what would you like to talk about now?

T. Tam: Sacca parami and khanti parami.

Su. Okay, sacca is the truth of realities, so only right understanding can study and learn to understand the truth of whatever is now appearing. The first ariya sacca is that whatever is there it's conditioned to arise and falls away, but no one knows that until the enlightenment of the Buddha, and from his words we begin to study, to know what is there. No one conditions it to arise at all, but there must be proper conditions for different realities to show up, to appear as they are, as different realities. The truth of what is now appearing is that it has arisen by conditions, to be a different one, arising and falling away in succession, so very rapidly that there cannot be the understanding of just one at a time, to see the difference between the two of them, or the three, now. It can be thought about, like: now, what is seen? does it appear as it is or not yet? and what is meant by "as it is"?

It seems like we always live in the magic world: that which appears is conditioned to appear as something permanent, but actually that is not true, it's not sacca at all. And the world of truth must be the understanding only one now, as it is, because it needs understanding to understand firstly that actually there cannot be some-thing at all, because what is that as a thing? there are so many many different realities in it.

Tam B: Can you say it again, Ajahn?

Su. Because the world of truth is not like it seems to be, like now: many people and many things, but actually there must be only one object which is experienced at a time, and that cannot be anything compounded like a flower or bed. So what is the truth of what we take for just one thing or one person or a being, what is the truth of it? there are many things together, unknown, we take it for a whole, as something, but actually it can be broken up into just tiny, tiny, different units. For example, study now: what are there or what is there at the body? and this is the way to learn to understand sacca, the truth, the absolute truth of that which is now appearing as my body, but what is there? what do we take for body?

TT. So the true nature of our body is just citta, cetasika and rupa.

Su. No, the body, the body! it cannot be citta at all. That's what we learn from the words, thinking that there must be citta and cetasikas and rupas, but now we are talking about what we take for the body, everyone has one's body, but what is there that we take for body? learn to understand the body that you take for my body, but what is there, at the body?

TT. There are just different groups of kalapas, hardness and softness, heat and cold.

Su. That is thinking again, but what appears at the body, that you take it for my body, or the body? what is that, now, not the story of it.

TT. So at the moment hardness and softness can be experienced.

Su. Is there more than that?

TT. There can be tension or some subtle rupas which is hard to experience.

Su. Does that appear now, that which you've just talked about?

TT. Some can be experienced but some cannot because they do not appear to understanding.

Su. We don't talk about the story of the body, what we have heard, but we just talk about what we take for body right now. Is there anything there? the truth of it is there, not far away at all, but it has to be so very true. Does it appear, what you're talking about or what you just said that is there, now?

TT. So there is citta that experiences hardness and softness and then there is thinking about what is experienced.

Su. No, I'm just talking about what you take for body, only body, not anything else. Because we're used to taking it as "I have my body all the time, it's my body", but actually what is there? this is the way to learn Dhamma, to get through its truth which is there now. So even it's there, it's not known, it's just talking about it, many many words about it, but the reality, the actual reality is there, and what is that that we take for my body or the body but is there anything there?

TT. Only hardness and softness.

Su. Only that?

TB. One only one at a time, Ajahn.

Su. Yes, but how many are there?

TT. So at the moment of experience there will be a base to experience the object.

Su. Can you tell what object is it?

TT. So the object of the body sense is hardness.

Su. Okay, hardness is one, is there! so that cannot be your body at all, or anybody, or anything, because you said that there is hardness, so hardness is real, it's sacca, it's so true, it cannot be changed and it does not belong to anyone. This is the way to let go of that idea, actually realities are only realities, they cannot belong to anyone at all. Hardness is conditioned to arise and falls away unknowingly, but it's there to be known, exactly, when enough pañña is there, wherever, no matter only where it appears, but when it does not appear right now, you just remember that it's hard, but it's not the moment when hardness appears. And there can be letting go of the idea of my body, little by little, because there is more understanding of hardness as that which is conditioned just to appear very very shortly.

Studying Dhamma is studying that which appears right then, because usually there is the appearance of hardness many times in a day, but no thought about it, no considering about the truth of it yet, in order to find out the truth, that it's there when it appears. So hardness is one which appears at that moment. When there is the understanding of hardness there, no one, no body at all, only hardness. This is the beginning to understand the truth of what is there as not self.

So let's talk about only that which is now appearing, hardness is there, right or not? and are you just thinking about it or are we talking about hardness which is experienced now, to know that it's hard, it's a reality, not fingers, not legs, not nails at all. Only one object appears at a time and we are talking, just learning about that which is now appearing. So when we talk about hardness, there is hardness, otherwise we just think about hardness, but there must be hardness as object, and when we talk about hardness, it's only hard, it cannot be anything at all. So now, one rupa, what else? not just only hardness, there must be other realities appearing too, not just the hardness that we take for my body. So what is there?

TT. There is the temperature, Ajahn.

Su. You think about temperature, but usually what is there? now we are talking about only that which is now appearing, it's dhamma, and there is the way to understand it, this is the study of Dhamma, to know the truth of that which is now appearing, not that which is not appearing now. So, hardness, and then what? one, hardness is there, hard, at that moment when it appears it's there, it's a reality, it's not the body, it's only that characteristic which is hard, no matter where it is, it is hardness, it is hard, a reality, cannot belong to anyone, just arises and falls away. Okay, hardness is there, at moment when it appears, what else, at the body? the truth is there, you don't have to look for it somewhere else, it's there. And what else?

TB. Heat, Ajahn.

Su. Okay, two, what else, only two, at the body?

TB. Pressure.

Su. What's that?

TB. Like motion.

Su. Really? when?

TB. Like when lifting one's arm for example.

Su. Really? lift your arm, what appears?

TB. So, if we can say that there's my arm it is because of some pressure somewhere.

Su. Wrong understanding. What is that which is arm? no understanding, the thing that is an arm, but actually, what is it? does it appear? and what appears?

TB. So it's just only thought about, when one talks about arm.

Su. So, it's not studying Dhamma, because now dhamma appears, for sure, but not studying that, just thinking about it, but we are trying to understand the truth, the absolute truth, the sacca, or the truth, what is true it has to be appearing right now as object. For example, at moment of hardness appearing, we are talking about just that, only that, not the other reality, not the other moment. Only that which is hard, what we take for body. We learn to understand that what we take for body, no matter where, when there's touching, what usually appears as my body it's not the body, but it's only hardness right? so, that is true, no one. So hardness, and heat, and what else?

TT. Visible object, Ajahn.

Su. Okay, so three now.

Su. How many are there, altogether? isn't there also taste? like when one gets pricked with a needle and sucks the blood, isn't that taste? so, altogether the rupas at the body that can appear as object are only seven in life, as usual, right? at the body, what we take for body, only different rupas that can be directly experienced, one at a time, and when it's there as the object of experiencing, it cannot be the body at all. Because they are there, at the body, what we take for body, the seven rupas that can be directly experienced in life. So whatever is there, no matter it's at the body or wherever it is, it is the same: smell is smell, smell of what we take for body, taste of what we take for body. It is there, depending on whether it is experienced as the object or not, but it's there. That's why when we talk about the rupa, only seven rupas can be directly experienced in life. As you can chop up any piece of meat, you can chop up the whole body. So it's exactly the same, the body of the chicken, or pork or whatever, pig and so on. Only rupas, seven rupas. Sometimes isn't there sound of the body too? at the stomach for example?

So when we talk about the rupa, it depends on understanding, how much understanding of it as it is, as not self or anything at all. otherwise there is no moment of understanding the truth of it, as not anything at all, only that which is experienced because it is conditioned to arise and falls away, no matter what and when and where, exactly to same. Is this not the way to understand the rupa as it is, only rupa, cannot belong to anyone at all, just arises and falls away in split seconds. The breaking-up world, all the time. But it's not yet the direct experience or direct object yet. That's why we learn more to let go more of the idea of self, so right understanding can begin to be aware directly with understanding from learning, the pariyatti, enough to understand that as "it's only that", otherwise the idea of "something's there" cannot be eradicated. And it will lead to the moment of directly experiencing with understanding, little by little, unexpected moment, and there can be the understanding of the difference between intellectual understanding, just learning a lot about it, but not the moment when it's there, and the direct understanding, when it's there, with direct awareness, by conditions. Because just talking about it, it's not like the moment when it's there, with the understanding from having heard enough to understand that as "it's only that, it cannot be taken to be anything at all". And when right understanding is more developed there can be more experiencing directly, little by little, until it's developed well enough for the object to appear as we have heard from the Teachings of the Buddha, arising and falling away, no one there at all. And this is the highest point of studying, to let go of ignorance, attachment and all akusala dhammas, and finally all kusala dhammas as well. Is there any question?