Vāyo dhātu, that which is pressure (2nd part)

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(first part here)

Tam B: I have a question about vāyo dhātu again because in English the translation of vāyo dhātu is usually motion and sometimes I heard it translated as pressure as well. The the trouble I have with motion is it always involves some different moments like moving from here to there, so how can it ever be directly known, because it's already like two different moments. So I wonder whether pressure would be a better word for that and I would like to hear Ajahn comment and everyone's comment on this point.

A. Sujin: Can that which is hard move? No, the other tangible object has its own characteristics, but there can be the sense of moving, right? Or is it only just there all the time? Stretching out one's arm, how come? Can the solidity move? It has its characteristic as to be just solid, hardness only, it cannot move, but how can that move? We don't talk about the action which is seen, but the moment of feeling. That's why we have the word like breath, it's not just there but [it goes] in and out, but actually, even in and out it's not just the characteristic of that which we take for in long and out long, but it's there with other rūpas, but its quality is that which is pressure.

When something is so tight, hard to open, it appears as hardness, but the tightness, the pressure is there too, different from the other thing which is hard. So, it's so daily life, and we have doubt about the word, but the truth is that it moves, but the movement is not only [made] by the vāyo dhātu, the other dhātus are there too, the other three, but that which can condition, that which can move must be [there], otherwise there cannot be movement at all, right? But we can move the..., we can swallow, we can drink, we can do anything because of that particular rūpa, which it depends on whether it appears or not, without the word we can experience it, but ignorance is there, not understanding it as it is: that which has the quality of moving, because when we talk about moving, it is not still. For example, hardness cannot move and other mahabhūta rūpas cannot move, but what is meant by moving, when we mold something like a pot, it moves so that it can become that quality which is different from before. So, it's quite unknown by thought only, but it has to be following the truth, whether it's there movement, what can make it move? Something? Can a leave move? But it has vāyo dhātu, it moves by the wind or whatever, but the reality is there that makes it not [to] change, because it's moving all around, keeping that shape, to be such, not different.

Everything is so very detailed, very fine and very subtle to understand. For example, even right now, even one sits still, there must be that reality too, but it cannot be known at moment of touching when it does not appear. While one is walking, what is there? Hardness, softness or that which is not hard but it's there. Just stretch your arm, is it hard, or cold? But what is there? There must be a reality which keeps on at moment when it arises to [be] molded or to turn around or to move, to be in that shape. So, it's moment-to-moment, arising and falling away all the time. As the visible object conditions the shape and form to be known as something, so it's there, which is different from hardness and other dhātus, that it can make such be known as movement.

All dhammas are so very subtle, as much as we can understand from the word, and considering the truth which is now moving, and the word of the Buddha, the Enlightened One, because no one can think by one's own to understand each reality or all realities as the Buddha. Anyone would like to experience it, or when it's there no understanding, or trying to use the word, or no matter what is there, it's different from hardness and heat.

When you touch a balloon it's different from when you touch a cushion, right? Or sometimes the cushion is just like a balloon too. That's why it's different, so what is the difference? There must be the reality which makes it different, right?

Sundara: Isn't it thinking, Tan Ajahn? I think that's a good example, that you've given.

A-Su. Not thinking! When touching the balloon and you know that it's so firm, or sometimes the flesh, or when you touch someone, it's so very ... [puffed], like a balloon and the other is very very soft.

Ann: With the balloon or the skin, for instance, you can touch it, so there could be softness or pressure, depending I guess on conditions as to which you'd feel.

A-Su. And what is the condition?

A. Tangible object, body sense and the citta.

A-Su. What are the conditions for tangible object?

A. With the balloon?

A-Su. Anything.

A. Softness or pressure.

A-Su. So it's different, right? And it can be touched. That conditions different kind of feelings, of touching something like a balloon. But since it can be touched, it's not as subtle as āpo dhātu, who would know [this] if the Buddha didn't teach?

Azita: Is āpo dhātu the water element, Tan Ajahn?

A-Su. It's not the the tangible object/phottabba ārammana. And that reality which vibrates can condition the moment of what we call movement, but it's there in each kalapa of rūpas.

Az. But not as obvious as hardness or heat would, could we say that?

A-Su. It appears when we try to jump or something like that. We use the word jump, but what is there? The four mahabhūta rūpas, from moment to moment, and each has a different characteristic, so that which can vibrate or move, or whatever we call it, is there, otherwise nothing can be there as we think or call moving or movement.

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