Dhamma with Ajahn Sujin

[Sarah] Ajahn, I think Alan was asking about sammuti, not nimitta and sammuti sacca as conventional truth as opposed to paramattha sacca. [A. Sujin] But without the understanding the origin of what is taken for sammuti and sammuti sacca, how can there be the understanding of the meaning of it? For example now, is there any doubt about reality and nimitta? Without nimitta can there be sammuti? So, how come the idea of sammuti, how to understand it? Without understanding that without reality there is no nimitta and when there's no reality, no nimitta, how can there be sammuti? So, what conditions sammuti? Without reality, can there be sammuti? And without the nimitta of a reality can there be sammuti as citta and cetasikas? And without the nimitta as shape and form, how can there be the king or the violin, the piano and so on? But when there is the understanding of what conditions the moment of thinking about sammuti, what sammuti is, it has to be the understanding of th