Citta, only that which is the chief
Excerpt from the EN-CN Dhamma discussion with Ajahn Sujin on Zoom - Sun Aug 20th 2023 (Suitable for beginner).
00:00 - Citta, the chief of experiencing because arising non-stop
[Vincent] Dazhuang had a comment about that which think it's different from what is thought about.
[A. Sujin] Is there thinking now? Is it known now? Is there seeing right now? What is seeing and does anyone understand it as it is? And the answer is right now at moment of seeing, what is it? It's easy to say it's a moment of seeing and that means that there must be a reality which sees because the object of seeing is seen, so we simply say that seeing is that which arises to see, but it is not that which is seen, it's the reality which can experience the object which is seen, is that right? But is there any understanding of the reality which sees, as it is? It's not that which is hard or soft, it's not that which is seen, but it's the reality, a reality, which can experience that object which is seen. At moment of hearing there must be a reality which arises to hear or to experience the sound, no matter at moment of seeing right now or moment of hearing right now, there must be a reality which arises to experience what is there appearing.
And what about thinking right now? Without that which arises to think, can there be the thought of that which is thought about? What is the difference between that which sees and that which hears and that which thinks? Even it's the reality which arises to experience no matter what, the object of experiencing is different, but the characteristic of that which just arises to experience that is the same, it just arises to experience an object, no matter what object it is. So, in a day, no matter in what life, there must be the reality from birth, arising, experiencing the object from moment to moment, non-stop, by conditions, even right now it's there: seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, thinking.
02:37 - Is there citta right now?
So it's the chief of experiencing, no matter what we are thinking about, any subject, any situation, it's there, experiencing each moment, one object at a time. At moment of seeing it's there, at moment of hearing it's there, at moment of thinking it's there and no matter whether it is the objects through the six doorways or not, it's there, arising and falling away until death, and next life begins, there must be that which arises before it, before death and then death and then new life: the reality which arises to experience an object is there, it just experiences what is there, even at moment of being fast asleep, it's there because there are conditions for it to arise non-stop from moment to moment, is that true? Is it there right now? Does anyone think about it? That it's not that which is seen but that which sees. It's not just the idea or the story of such and such, but it's that which experiences that, to be its object.
03:54 - Without experiencing its truth it's I who sees
So, is there any moment without it? But, is it known or it's just thinking about that which appears?
Without directly experiencing the truth of it, it's I who see, I who hears, and I who thinks and I like and so on. As long as not understanding of the truth of it, there are conditions for it to arise, it'll never stop at all, never end. What was there yesterday and what is there now and what will be tomorrow? There must be that particular reality which arises and just experiences what is there, no matter through what doorway: seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching and thinking.
But there are other realities which experience the object, but they are different ones. And each of the other realities which experience the object has its characteristic, its function and its conditions for its arising, but not to be the one that is there from birth on and on, experiencing the object through different doorways.
So we use different terms, different words to specify what is what: the one being that which arises from birth on and on, just experiencing the object clearly, the chief of experiencing, we can call it citta or viññana or mano or mana. And we use different words when it performs different functions but it's there, that which is the chief of experiencing an object. And in general we call it citta, the chief of those which experience the object, what does this mean? There must be other realities which arise and experiences the same object, together, but not as the chief and we call the realities which arise and experience the object with citta, at the moment, together, but it's not [as] the chief as cetasikas, 1 citta and 52 cetasikas, different qualities, different functions, but they conditions each other to arise and experience the same object, together.
06:25 - Citta, only that which is the chief
So, at moment of seeing what is there or what are there and what is what? Is there anyone seeing? When there's no understanding it's I, but when there is the understanding of the truth of that moment, the reality which experiences the object, which sees, is there with cetasikas which arise together, experience the same object, but not as the chief because each has its own characteristic, its own quality and function, performing it at the same time.
So, understanding a little more of seeing right now, what is what, otherwise it's just the word: that which arises and experiences it with other cetasikas being there, but the function of seeing is only that which is the chief, the citta. So, at moment of hearing, what are there? And at moment of thinking what are there? And what is the chief of experiencing the object which is thought about? The beginning of understanding can develop gradually, little by little, only by conditions. Just hearing the words of truth once or twice is it enough? To understand the truth of it right now as: it's just a moment of that which arises and experiences the object. And without more confidence of the truth of this moment there's no condition to directly understand the truth of it, with what we call sati or just awareness with right understanding and it has to be just one object at a time, to be known.
08:24 - Citta, so subtle, even thinking in words about it
Is there any doubt about the truth of what we are saying? So, this is the beginning to attend to the moment of seeing or hearing or any moment, just by conditions. So, when understanding is not enough there cannot even be thinking about it, in words. But understanding is not a word: attending to the object, to the characteristic of a reality, it's not a word, but it's the understanding of what is what, so it conditions that moment, without words.
For example, there is seeing right now, do we have to say seeing sees, it's not I who see? But the reality which remembers with understanding what is heard conditions attention to that, even if very little it's there before hearing about it. Is this the studying of dhammas? Otherwise it's just the word in the book, but each word the Buddha said just pinpoint the reality which is there right then, to be known little by little.
09:45 - Understanding the level of the subtlety of each reality
So, in truth, what is there now at moment of seeing? We say that this level of understanding applies the truth to what appears, not by anyone, but understanding itself begins to understand what is there, little by little, by conditions. When conditions are not enough it's time to be a moment of attachment, aversion and thinking a lot about such story and situation. And what is there? So very subtle, beyond anything that can be thought about in a day.
Each subject can be studied, no matter Physics or Science and what, but that which is there now is so very subtle, to realize the truth of it. So, without understanding the subtlety of all kinds of realities, there cannot be the moment of studying the word of truth from the Enlightened One.
So, can anyone understand the meaning of the Enlightened One, the Buddha, without understanding what he said? So we can learn just one word at a time, adding more and more, understanding the level of the subtlety of that particular reality. So, what is there in a moment, is it known now as a different one? Seeing now, hearing now, not the hearing, seeing before. So, is there any question or doubt about?
11:26 - Beginning to be aware with right understanding of what one has heard about
[Vincent] Dazhuang said it clearly explained there are conditioned reality that arise to experience an object, but we are in a story what it's all about in dark without understanding without knowing that which experiences.
[A. Sujin] And that is pañña which begins to understand that as long as it's not realized as it is there must be doubt and clinging to that as something or I. And this is the beginning of the firm confidence of the truth, that it will develop on and on to higher level, not just learning about different realities, but beginning to be aware with right understanding of what one has heard about it and understood about it, to be known exactly when it's there. What are there in a moment are so very subtle, that's why we begin to understand what is what because that which is the chief of experiencing cannot be aware of anything at all. That's why for 45 years the Buddha taught about just the absolute truth of what is there, from the very beginning to the end.
- Original dhammahometv source video: