Viriya, what would you like to get in order to let go?

-

Excerpt from the Dhamma discussion with Ajahn Sujin on Zoom on Sat Feb 10th 2024.

0:00 - No attention to or even thinking about the nature which sees because it does not appear

[Eve] Tan Ajahn, please, when I join the zoom meeting I'm testing viriya, the energy and the effort to continue listening and it's continuing but in a sense letting go, not with an eye to the results. Because if I wait for understanding, it's a long wait...

[A. Sujin] Okay, would you like to let go of the ignorance of seeing right now? [Yes.] How long will it take? Because there's no attention to or even thinking about the nature which sees because it does not appear, what appears is only that which is seen.

So, even there is seeing right now, without energy or viriya arising with it at all, but who knows? Because moments after that, when there are conditions, viriya is there. That's why we learn to understand dhammas as no one at all, all by conditions.

And why doesn't seeing arise with viriya? Because it's conditioned by kamma just to arise to see, that's all, nothing more, only seeing, no attachment, no aversion, no viriya because no need to have viriya: kamma conditions its result to arise to experience, no one can get away from it because it's the result of the conditions which condition moment of seeing, just seeing, a moment, just seeing, see, that's the result, no need to have viriya or other cetasikas with it.

That's why ten cittas arise without viriya, only seven cetasikas... it's enough. But cittas after that... more cetasikas, by conditions too because those do not see but experience the same (visible) object, so they needs other cetasikas: vitakka and so on.

2:21 - No need for unwholesome cetasikas to condition the moment of birth

That's why we learn to understand the truth that no one can know without hearing the truth and considering the reason about it, why it's there and why it's not there... no viriya with seeing, who knows? But after that, akusala arises, no matter it's so very slight, with viriya to be akusala.

But as the result of kamma, no need for viriya to see, but at birth it's needed. That's why we have to understand different realms and different conditions and different cittas: when it is the result of akusala kamma, no need to have more cetasikas, unwholesome cetasikas, to condition just the moment of patisandhi (as ahetuka-akusala-vipaka-citta), birth, that's all.

That's why the more there is the understanding of the truth, at that very moment it lets go, it doesn't mean that one should like to let go of everything: it takes quite a long time to let go, but when there's no understanding, how can the ignorance and wrong understanding let it go? Impossible!

Is there still wanting to let go very soon? What is right and what is wrong? And when it's wrong (view) is it miccha ditthi or samma ditthi? Letting go is letting go of seeing right now, not as I-who-sees: not anyone at all.

3:55 - Only that which is seen: so very tiny that it cannot be taken for anything

And what is seen is not anything at all, right now, in truth, when it's there, experienced, no pillow no bed no window at all, only that which is seen: so very tiny that it cannot be taken for anything at all, that is the truth at moment of seeing.

But after that more conditions, experiencing that object by nimitta, forming up the idea of something, clinging to that. And how can there be letting go of the idea of something right now?

No understanding of seeing itself: no viriya, no need for it, kamma conditioned it just to see, just to, see, no attachment, no viriya, no need at all, only seven cetasikas arising with seeing.

So, who knows that the cetasikas arising cannot be more than seven only at moment of seeing hearing smelling tasting touching, ten cittas, (five) kusala vipaka and (five) akusala vipaka.

5:10 - How long before we will be able to take the paint out of the painting?

So, what we're now experienceing, such and such picture, someone or something, is it right or is it wrong? Or just what is there as the paint on the canvas or paper, see. How long before we will be able to take it out of the paper, not to be the bird anymore or the mountain or the water or the forest?

Because in truth without such and such moment arising and falling away there can never be the idea of something experienced at all, only that which can be experienced by such citta only: seeing cannot hear, hearing cannot see, different realities by different conditions, is it true? Try to make seeing hear... impossible!

6:04 - What would you like to get to have letting go?

So, let go of wrong understanding from attachment and ignorance, not understanding what is there as it is. What would you like to get to have letting go?

[Eve] At this moment, nothing.

[A. Sujin] So, not the time to think about it as "I would like to let go" because understanding only is moment of letting go of ignorance and wrong understanding with attachment. Is that true? Can anyone stop the way it is? [No.]

And it will be less and less when there is the understanding, at the first stage and then the second stage and finally the last stage, experiencing what the Buddha had enlightened, now, as it is.

Seeing is not moment before seeing, at the moment before seeing is there viriya with it? Who would know if the Buddha hadn't taught about it? Each moment is so very very short.

Until what can be known becomes the nimitta of just one reality, but only one single moment cannot be known at all: by way of processes, what arises first and then what follows, by way of dhammas, by way of conditions.

So, who knows or who can answer whether it's moment of viriya right now? Just from the book. But when it's there as viriya, can it be known? When it's there, only when it's there. No word, but the nature of it is known.

[Eve] Yes, its nature, its characteristic.