Cetana, urging those that are there now to do it

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Cetana, urging those that are there now to do it

Excerpt from the Dhamma discussion with Ajahn Sujin on Zoom on Sat Feb 10th 2024.

[Alan] To what extent can kamma be understood?

[A. Sujin] Is kamma the word or the reality?

[Alan] Kamma is the reality, yes, intention.

[A. Sujin] Okay, if we just want something like food and we just sit still will there be food for us?

[Alan] No, there is intention which makes it happen, yes.

[A. Sujin] So, can we say that that is cetana or will to do? [Yes.] So it depends on the level of cetana, for example, it arises with each citta, not only with (those with) lobha or dosa, so, then it has no will to kill or to do anything yet as [what] we take it for killing, teaching or whatever is there. That's why we have to understand the nature of each reality, when it's so very slight and when it's stronger, until it conditions such a deed. Without willing or intention, can anyone be killed? [No.] That's why just having anger, slight or stronger, without that intention to kill, can there be killing? [No.] So we can understand when it's just a reality which has its function different from others: each reality is different.

That's why cetana is not phassa, it's not vedana, it's not sañña, so we learn about what is the function of cetana which arises with each citta. When we say "each", it means each different one. For example at moment of seeing right now, cetana it's not at level of doing something like writing or walking at all, is that right? But there has to be that reality which arises to perform its function: to coordinate the other realities which arise together, to do or to perform their functions, no matter what: seeing, memory, vedana, manasikara are there. That's why we learn to understand the different moments, that very slight moment, like attachment to the self or to the being or to ignorance (as asava), it's not as strong as when something is being done.

That's why we begin to understand cetana as a reality: it's there. That's why without the deed which has been done, can there be any result? [No.] So we can understand the strong will to do something, saying something wholesome or unwholesome, by such reality, is that right? Even there is attachment but no will to take it, to take possession of it without being allowed, and so on. We can understand the very very coarse moments of ill deeds or unwholesomeness, little by little, little by little, that's what is there, as different ones.

For example right now, there is memory, remembering what is there appearing, who knows? So that is a reality which is not cetana, we use the Pali term to differentiate the characteristic and the function of each reality. So, cetana does not marks or remember, but it wills to do or coordinates the other realities arising together to perform their functions. A little bit understanding of a reality which is not attachment or aversion, without it nothing could be done: it urges, it coordinates what are there now to do it, no matter it's seeing, hearing, speaking, cooking or whatever.

And just wanting something, but not stealing it, is it different? [Yes.] See, depending on what are there together with cetana, which is the one who asks or coordinates the others to perform their functions. For example, it can be known as: intention to do something, it's not just attachment or aversion, or kusala.

[Alan] Yes because we can have attachment to something but we don't do anything, but the bad deeds are rooted in attachment and aversion, presumably very strong.

[A. Sujin] Otherwise it would be just the accumulation from moment to moment, to condition stronger and stronger attachment or aversion, and then cetana is different, each moment, each level. So now, no doubt about cetana, it's there with every citta. [Yes.] That's why it is kamma paccaya, condition, to condition the result, and what are the results? Seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, birth, death...

[Alan] But can that be known by direct experience, that seeing is the result of a deed?

[A. Sujin] At moment of having such strong cetana, can the other realities appear? [No.] And at moment of just irritation not being that level of strong anger, would strong anger or whatever is there of that degree appear? So we know whether it's just slight or it's very strong, whatever is there can be directly experienced, not by anyone.