Understanding the patthana of sati of kaya not of other things

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Excerpt from the Dhamma discussion with Ajahn Sujin in Binh Chau (VN) on Mar 4th 2024 am.

[Q] I would like to hear more about kaya-gata-sati and kaya-anupassana-sati-patthana.
[A. Sujin] If there's no clear understanding of kaya, can there be the understanding of kaya-gata-sati or kaya-anupassana-sati-patthana? That's why we have to understand the meaning of kaya, because there can be other meaning as well, not just only one meaning (i.e. body). But what is there together, together is kaya. Together... kaya (i.e. collection), the eye is here, not there. The ear is here, not there. What is there together, together is kaya. So when the namas arise together, citta and cetasikas, it is nama-kaya. The reality which is nama, which arise together, and rupa-kaya, whatever is there together is kaya.
So, when we read about kaya-anupassana-sati-patthana, what is there? In order to understand the meaning of it, or the truth of it. So what are there in kaya-anupassana-sati-patthana? Because you see that kaya-anupassana-sati-patthana, many words, not just one word, kaya. That's why we have to understand what is meant word by word: kaya-anupassana-sati-patthana, so, what is patthana (i.e. the object)? Otherwise we just talk about the name, the word. So what is patthana? And patthana for what? Sati-patthana, not phassa-patthana, not vedana-patthana, not sañña-patthana, but kaya-anupassana-sati-patthana. If there's no understanding of this, we just think in our own way. So what is the meaning of patthana?
It's here or there, if it's not here, it's of no use, it cannot be understood as what the Buddha realized. But what realizes it? So many different moments, not just one moment, developing to be realized, stage by stage. So now, if there's no understanding of sati, can there be the understanding of patthana? It's not feeling-patthana, or cetana-patthana, or phassa-patthana. That's why what is sati, in order to understand sati-patthana, to be kaya-anupassana-sati-patthana. From understanding the patthana of sati of kaya, not of other things, but the patthana of sati to understand kaya, anupassana, clearly, until it is vipassana. Not just talking about it, it's the moment of realizing the truth. And what is that which realizes? Right understanding only. Because now there are eyes, there's seeing, where is the understanding?
See, we talk about the eye as it's here, and we talk about hearing or seeing. It's there now, but what is the truth of it? That's why dhamma is so very subtle, nobody can understand it instantly. As much as the whole book about this and that, or many books on Abhidhamma or whatever Buddha taught. That's why each word represents a reality which is right now, unknown. Just hearing about it, remembering the word about it. Thinking when it's there about the story or what we have heard, whether it's this or that, remembering. And just to answer, but what about the understanding?
That's why patthana, what is it? See, if there is more considering from the words of the Teachings, not by oneself, there can be the understanding right now, what is patthana for sati? But if there is no understanding of sati yet, how can there be the understanding of patthana? Because it is sati-patthana. So what is sati? Not just talking about it, from the book, remembering it, but is it there now? Even it's there now from hearing, considering, it's not clearly known yet. Because it's always I, even I-have-sati. Always I.
That's why understanding the very great virtues of the Buddha, His knowledge or understanding or realization. Each word should be carefully considered because it's right there now. Even we talk a lot about it, how much understanding of it? It's only just intellectual understanding, the first level of understanding, as long as it's not sati-patthana, the higher understanding. That can be any time, but much more than intellectual understanding. Because intellectual understanding just understands the meaning, the truth of it, but not the reality of it, which is there.
So understand what is sati in order to understand sati-patthana, and kaya and anupassana. So what is sati? Haven't we talked about it before? The word or the nature or the level of sati? It's just the word heard, without understanding there can be the misunderstanding. "Drive carefully, with sati, otherwise you can have an accident." "Walk carefully, otherwise you'll stumble." That is not sati at all. It's just one's own idea about what one's heard in life. So who knows that from birth what one says is not with any understanding at all? And that means that ignorance is there from birth, on and on and on, even at the moment of seeing right now, ignorance is there. We don't have to find out where ignorance is now. No understanding of seeing, and taking it for I.
See, asava, bhava-asava, the being's there, so my being, attachment to that which is seen, kama-asava. Because the word kama in Tipitaka means the sensuous object, the five sensuous objects. What is seen, what is heard, what is smelled, what is touched, what is tasted. See, all in life, who knows from birth, no understanding of the truth of it. Just taking it for something and I, people all the time. How much ignorance, how much attachment, how very little hearing about the Teachings of the Buddha. But each word represents very, very subtle, very, very deep reality right now. It's so close to seeing, no understanding of it, how subtle it is. If one tries so hard to find seeing, to understand it, how can the ignorance that conditions such and such way be gone, to understand the truth? That's why listen to the Teachings of the Buddha with great respect. He said just the same word as we say, dhamma, and we use the term dhamma, how much difference of understanding, how far apart, from very little understanding to the highest understanding. That's why study the truth right now to understand that it's not just the word, without word it sees, without word it hears, without word it smells, and so on. That's why this is the truth of life. No-I, no-one. So being this person is only in this life, short or long, depending on conditions. No more I after death and before birth no I at all. And life goes on as long as conditions are there, endlessly.
So we talk about dukkha, see. The arising and falling away of what is there now seeing, hearing, and so on. How much understanding? Not that dukkha yet as the ultimate truth. It's not there anymore even right now. The more considering, the more letting go. There can be death-moment anytime by conditions, no one knows at all.
Because what is known is only through six doorways. But before one of the six doorways, many cittas unknown, from birth. So the two moments of... one is the death, the end of this life, and the other is birth, new life, instantly, they cannot be known at all. No time to fear death because it can be right now. That's why we learn about the temporary death of each reality.
What arises falls away even right now unknowingly. That's why in order to have firm confidence of the truth, just begin to understand each word of the Buddha representing what is there as it is. Even kaya, see, not just taking it by the meaning, but kaya is whatever arise together, no matter how many are there arising together, it's kaya because it's not just one. So when we talk about nama-kaya, it's not that which cannot experience the object, but it's this moment of citta and cetasikas arising together. And when we talk about rupa-kaya, even just the dust is rupa-kaya, who knows, the Buddha enlightened the truth. What is there now, seemingly so permanent, can be broken up into the tiniest particle. But what is there is seen, so it's much more than one: rupa-kaya.
That's why now the body, the whole body, we are not talking about seeing, hearing, smelling... we're talking about that which cannot experience, here, from head to toe, rupa-kaya, it cannot experience anything. At moment of touching, it doesn't have any idea that it's touched at all. It cannot experience anything. That's why the Buddha taught about how many rupas are there. Not how many roses, how many cars, how many mountains, but how many rupas are there, in truth, arising and falling away by conditions, no one can make it arise at all.
This is the way for firmer confidence to gradually let go, unknowingly, like touching the knife handle. Just one touch doesn't wear away anything at all. And who knows that moment, when each moment of touching is there, wearing it away? So very, very little, unknown, until it's known, little by little. It's just right now, hearing about the Teachings, no expectations in just trying very hard, going somewhere to understand it. Ignorance is there at moment of thinking like that. And attachment conditions the idea of going somewhere to understand it.
But the real understanding can understand whatever is there right now. Not moving yet, see. That's why understanding dhamma, the one who sees dhamma sees me, the Buddha. These are the words of the Buddha, so very, very subtle. Is it true? The rupa all over the body? So there can be the understanding about what is there in life, little by little.
Are you hungry? Body? Or that which feels unpleasant, at that moment? See, each reality can be studied not just to hear about it, but to consider the truth that it's so subtle, each word. If we think that it's easy, three roots, six roots... it's not enough at all. That's why when there is more understanding, it lets go at that very moment, no need to try to let go somewhere else. Without understanding, no matter where one goes, it's not letting go because of no understanding.
So this is the path the Buddha had developed for eons and eons, more than anyone else, to become enlightened in the truth, ultimately, no one can compare with Him at all. Is that right? Understanding seeing is not experiencing seeing. It's there now, no understanding, but understanding that it sees, but what *it* is not known yet. So it's I-see, even when one doesn't say I-see: it's not-I, but still I-see at the moment of saying it's-not-I. How deep it is.
That's why the truth of each moment of hearing the Teachings, just to have confidence of the truth. And why, what Buddha realized is not right now for us to realize, not enough understanding. Even seeing right now is not me, is not anyone, it's just a conditioned reality arising and falling away. It's heard, it's understood, but it's not directly experienced. Not the second and the third stage yet. That's why even the first stage has to be very carefully considered. Not just remembering and trying to answer, but to understand the truth of what is there now. That's why what is the first vipassana ñana? Realizing the nature of that which experiences, careful considering. It now experiences but at moment when it's there appearing, much different. Nothing is there at all because even right now at moment of touching, only hardness is there, not any reality at all. But it's not known yet until sati, the reality which is aware of wholesomeness, different on degrees and conditions for its arising.
So now, learn about there is a reality which is not citta. It's different from citta, but it arises with citta. At that moment it's nama-kaya: not just one reality. So sati cannot arise alone, but at moment when it is aware, at that moment, not the other cetasika's function at all. Without it, it is akusala. Beginning to understand the truth in life little by little, having more confidence of dhamma, anatta. Because the Buddha said: all dhammas are anatta. That's why now it's only the word about all dhammas, but not the understanding a little more of a dhamma, even seeing. Or when a question is asked... thinking about the words... it's not the understanding of the truth. There can be the answer instantly.
The one who sees dhamma sees me, how much is one getting closer to the virtues of the Buddha? By understanding, word by word, of the truth. So, are we living in darkness or light, in truth? The truth can be considered, it cannot be changed, the truth has to be the truth, always true, ultimate truth. So now, in truth, are we living in darkness or light? Without understanding the truth no answer, but when there is the understanding of the truth, instant answer. Because the truth is the truth. So now, are we are living in darkness or light? See, but if you ask the other people, it's not dark yet, but in truth the understanding is quite different from ignorance. So, this moment is light, we are in the light... ignorance is there. Is that right?

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