Kilesa, beginning to understand about no understanding of what is there

Excerpt from the Dhamma discussion (En-Hi) with Ajahn Sujin on Zoom on Sat Dec 21st 2024 (Part 1). Trascribed by Jiw, reviewed by Alberto.
Mp3 audio file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tpOBBa9Glas5Bsg3MPj_gEg8uGMwF4vu

[A. Sujin] When there is understanding of what is there as it is, then no doubt when one comes across what is taught by the Buddha: different kilesas (defilements). So, now, what does kilesa mean? Is it real? Right now!

To be truthful to the truth, beginning from what is there now. What is there is not known, so what's the use of just learning from the books about what is there now when it is not known? But when it is known then there is no doubt about the words in the book.

So, is there kilesa now? It's there to be know, right? Or is it not there now? How much of understanding of the truth right now? Not just listening, understanding, and then no thinking about what is there right now, whether it's about what we have been talking.

So, it’s not one’s own thoughts, but it's the truth of what is there now, when we talk about kilesa, where is it, when is it, and what is it? What is there now is not known as it is, which means that it's so very subtle, not just now, but any moment in life, this life, previous life, future life.

So, beginning to understand by oneself, considering again and again, what is there right now when we talk about kilesa? What is it right now? Just answering like what is written in the book is not enough at all because anyone can read by oneself, but what about considering each word, which is so very subtle? Because it's there at any moment, unknown.

So, beginning to be aware of the very precious moment of understanding what is there in life, each moment. What is the use of just remembering a number of words, but no understanding of any now at all? Don't forget, life is so short, death can be any moment. So, the most precious moment is understanding the truth of what is there right now. Each word of the Buddha just points out what is there right now. So, what is there right now, please, when you use the word kilesa, what does it mean? What is it?

[Akhil] Asha is saying that we have no understanding of the reality which appears, of the real Teachings of the Buddha.

[A. Sujin] So now, beginning to understand better and better, clearer and clearer, about no understanding that she just said, no understanding of what is there, seeing, hearing, thinking, and every reality. No understanding, is it a reality? It cannot understand, but it's there, never understanding the truth of what is there, is it a reality? [Right, Ajahn]

OK. So, what has been done in any life, even in this life, was done by ignorance, no understanding of the truth. Isn't that paticca-samuppada (dependent arising), the first link? No hearing about the truth. So, how can there be the considering about what is done in life must be by ignorance. No matter it's a deed or speech, all are done by avijja. That's why avijja conditions sankhara, what is there each moment in life is conditioned by sankhara. Many, many conditioned realities conditioning each other, each moment. Isn't this clear understanding about beginning of understanding paticca-samuppada? How whatever is there now is appearing.

So, what was last life or previous life about? Avijja conditioned the deeds and the speech in that life, just like in this life. So, it goes on and on, from life to life, conditioning sankhara until it's unwholesome deed or wholesome deed. Not just the moment of kilesa, but the degree or the strength of kilesa conditioning each kusala-kamma or akusala-kamma, is that right? Paticca-samuppada is not in the book, it’s right now, each moment, no matter in previous lives, this life, or future lives. Avijja conditions sankhara, speech and deeds.

So, when we talk about this life, avijja in this life conditions sankhara, kusala-kamma or akusala-kamma in this life, which will condition viññana in a next life, birth consciousness. The deeds which have been done in this life will be condition for viññana, the first moment of life, patisandhi-citta of a next life. Avijja conditions sankhara, sanhkara conditions viññana, see. What has been done in this life can be condition for the birth of the next life.

Understanding what is there in this life is much better than just reading the book and just thinking about the word. That’s why no matter what word we've heard, it's just now. And it can be understood when there is careful considering about the truth of what is there, no matter what kilesa we're talking about. Where is it, when is it and what is it? It's right now, to be known! So, how many kinds of kilesa in this life? Are they known yet?

[Akhil] She doesn’t know how many types of kilesa are there in this life or at this moment.

[A. Sujin] So, that’s why people did wrong, ill deeds, because of ignorance. Even kilesa or akusala moment, it's not known, so, what’s the use of listening to the Teachings? Not understanding the truth that even right now is there! Different words for different degrees, different functions of akusala.

That’s why we learn that it's right now, and as what. And the conditions for life to change are by understanding what is right and what is wrong, what is to one's advantage and what is to one's disadvantage. Isn't that so precious, even understanding a little bit more of the truth? Because right understanding or pañña conditions the right or wholesome realities to arise, more and more. But there are so many realities that we have to learn, to understand what is what, otherwise, we mistake it for this while it’s not that at all.

So now, we don’t just talk about paticca-samuppada by words, but we're talking about understanding the way paticca-samuppada works its way every moment. For example, is there avijja right now? [Right, Achan, it’s there.] By way of many, many different angles. For example, talking by way of kilesa, it's there; by way of nivarana, it's there. So, learn about the absolute reality and then understand how it works.

So now, please talk about any reality to understand its truth, that it's conditioned, no one can make it arise. Learn to understand what is taken for I/myself to understand the truth that they are kusala reality or akusala realities, which will condition their results later.

#Dhammahome source video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxaj7AaFz1A