The four mahabhuta (primary) rupas - without these nothing can arise

(Excerpt from the Dhamma discussion with Ajahn Sujin and Nepali students in Bkk on Tue Apr 23rd 2024 |Rupa|part 1|) Audio file: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AujD6qLjtvuOjw6T6mXZ8benjHme

Pathavi, hardness, when it's touched it cannot be the table
That's why we learn Dhamma, that's why we have to understand that each word cannot be changed. So, what is hardness? It's hard. What is it? We have learned that there are two kinds of reality, one can experience the object, nama-dhamma. And the other one cannot experience it all, rupa. So, what is rupa again? Is there rupa? Yes, there is rupa, but what is rupa? Because rupa is the reality which cannot experience any object at all. Whatever cannot experience. Can it be you? So, can hardness experience anything?

So, it's rupa, hardness is just one rupa. It cannot be changed, it's not sweet. So, we learn to understand rupa, one by one. There is hardness, what else? That's why we learn about the ultimate truth, the absolute truth. No matter it's touched and experienced, it's only hard, no matter it's this or that. So, the ultimate truth is that which is hard and it cannot experience anything. So, now, hardness is real, it's rupa, it cannot experience any object at all. What else is rupa? One... we're counting how many rupas. Sound, okay, one by one.

When we're talking about hardness, who knows that there are four primary rupas? What is meant by primary? Without these four kinds, no other rupa can arise at all. That's why even color is seen, but without hardness, can there be just that which is seen, color? We can say main rupas, primary or main. It means that without these, nothing can arise at all.

The question from yesterday was - what is citta? But it doesn't matter, anything which is real can be learned, that they are all dhamma, so true. But no one knows the nature of it, just taking it for a glass or the table and so on. But the absolute truth is only: no matter it's seen, it's a reality. And when it's touched, it cannot be the table, it's only hard. Without hardness, there cannot be anything, smell or color. So, there are four kinds of rupas which are primary or the main rupa. Four, and one is hardness, in Pali pathavi… one by one. This is the first one we are talking about.

Tejo, temperature, it cannot be hard
Touch this. It's cool. Is it real? Is coolness hard? Is it hard, the coolness? It cannot be hard at all. So, do you want to know the second one? Coolness, and in Pali? Tejo... pathavi and tejo. And it's cool or hot, so it is temperature, tejo dhatu, dhatu in Pali means element. How many dhatus are there? Just one meaning or one characteristic. Because all dhammas, and another word we can say is all dhatus, because each dhamma is its own dhatu, each dhamma is each dhatu, each dhamma is dhatu, all dhammas are dhatus because each dhamma has its own characteristic, is its own dhatu. So, is heat or temperature, dhamma? Is it dhatu? The same, same thing.

So now, can hardness be hot? Different dhamma, different reality, different characteristic, no one. That's why we learn to understand different dhatus, different nama-dhatu, different rupa-dhatu. And each has its own characteristic. That's why it cannot be taken for I or anything. Hardness is hard, no matter where and when. The sun, the moon, heaven, hell. And this is the meaning of dhamma. That's why the Buddha enlightened the truth of dhamma, all dhammas.

And this is the very firm, basic foundation to understand the Teachings of the Buddha. Otherwise, it's impossible, just taking the word, following the word, but not the truth. The truth is not the word. No matter we change the word, the truth cannot be changed. Okay, now, how many rupas? Now, so far, how many are there? [Two.] What are they? [Pathavi, tejo. Hardness and temperature. Pathavi-dhatu, tejo-dhatu.]

Vayo, the molder, without it nothing would keep its shape
And now, vayo-dhatu. First of all, we have to understand that these four have to arise together. They cannot be separated at all. The four primaries are the four main rupas, without these four, no rupa can arise at all. So now, vayo-dhatu. Can hardness move? Can heat move? [No.] But the movement, the reality, which conditions movement is vayo-dhatu. So now, the meaning from the Enlightened One? [It can move.] Yes. Can it experience anything? [No.] That's why it's a rupa-dhatu.

But it's more subtle, much more subtle than thinking about movement of the arms or the legs. It's inside the body. It's together with hardness. It arises with hardness and temperature.

And vayo... it's like when you mold a cup or something, the molder. You need to have that. Beyond thinking, imagining, but learn to understand that without it, nothing would keep its shape. So it keeps all rupas the same shape. And at moment of speaking, vayo-dhatu is there with apo and tejo and pathavi. Not separated. [When speaking...] Yes, moving. Learn to know that, what is what. No one, all are dhammas, the rupas.

Without understanding one cannot know how subtle Dhamma is
Learn to understand, little by little, that actually there's no one. All are dhammas. All namas experience what is there. Seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, thinking. And the rupas cannot experience anything at all. This is just the beginning.

And without this, how can there be the understanding of what is there in Tipitaka? If we just say citta, cetasikas, rupas, no understanding. [Yes, we have to understand from the beginning.] And the truth. [Yes.] Right now. And that is studying dhamma. Not the word, but the dhamma, the reality, what is there now. So, no need just to learn about the word, but understanding the subtlety of each reality is most important. Otherwise, you do not know the Buddha at all. His great virtues... understanding the truth. Not just understanding the word, but the enlightening the nature of all dhammas.

That's why after his enlightenment, he said: Dhamma is so very subtle. Is Dhamma subtle now, deep? Very, very deep.

And if someone says, dhamma is so very subtle, without understanding one doesn't know how subtle it is. But when you understand the subtlety of all dhammas, you know how subtle. And this is the beginning. And more and more and more deeper and subtler. Beginning to understand when paying respect to the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha because of this kind of understanding.

Never before in life, who knows, how many, many lives went by with ignorance, no understanding of anything at all.

But now, there are conditions, already forgotten. Without conditions, there cannot be here and now, listening to Dhamma. Because just "conditions" doesn't mean anything at all. So any word you hear that is not clear yet, we can have a little more discussion about it. To understand, this is most important because it is just the beginning, the first round of the four noble truths, ariya sacca, four... what is the first, the second, the third, and the fourth.

How deep it is. Because when we talk, it's about each reality, but now so many! So, can there be the understanding of just one as it is? Imagine! And it's not just talking about it, experiencing it. Just only one. Otherwise, it's not clear. So now what appears does not appear as it really is.

Beginning to understand the virtues of the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha. Did you forget? Will you forget what you've heard and studied? [No.] Not at all. Because when there is understanding, it understands. No matter who says dhamma, you know what it is. Someone says nama-dhatu, you understand. And the hardness, see? The temperature and the movement. And you know who says wrong and who says right, when there is the understanding. But when you don't have understanding, you don't know what is understanding.

Talking about that which hasn't been known or heard before
What is understanding? Is it real? The first question to answer. Understanding is real because it understands. About pathavi, tejo, vayo, and apo. So understanding is a reality, it's conditioned. Without hearing, without careful, wise considering, there cannot be any understanding at all. So, understanding is not wise considering. Understanding is the reality which understands, but before understanding can arise, without careful considering, there cannot be any understanding. So the careful considering is not right understanding. Each different one is so very subtle. That's why so many nama-dhatu.

Understanding is one nama-dhatu. The Pali word is pañña.

And... wise considering, is it real? How can there be understanding without the subtlety of Dhamma, it's so subtle. We are talking about that which is not known or heard before. That's why we have to listen to each word of the Buddha, about dhammas, nama-dhamma, and rupa-dhamma. Because we just take the word rupa-dhamma, but if we don't talk about pathavi, vayo, tejo, apo, how can there be the understanding that they're real? What is real is not the word "rupa", but each one which is real is a rupa, which cannot experience any object at all. That's why don't underestimate or be careless not to consider carefully. As soon as it's not carefully considered, it's wrong, for sure. And who knows that even considering, we use that term, is a reality arising each moment. Unknown yet, that is now.

When will we know the reality... It's not just listen and then understand instantly. What is there in between, before there can be the understanding? Because hearing... without considering, can there be any understanding of the meaning of the word? So, at the moment of considering, is there understanding which arises just to understand.

Apo, cohesion, that which binds the three together
Is this Dhamma? Are all dhammas? [The fourth one...] The fourth one, now? How many rupa dhatus, so far? [Three.] And would you like to understand very much what is the fourth one? When we just want to understand, we just pass by that of which there isn't enough understanding. That's why I don't hurry to tell you what are all four. It's useless. First? [Pathavi.] Second? [Tejo.] Third? [Vayo.] And now, the fourth one is the very subtle one, too. Very, very subtle. All four are the main rupas. They arise together. Cannot be separated. They depend on each other, see, conditioning each other. No one can make any condition for anything, it's there by conditions itself. That's why the four have to arise together to support each other.

The fourth one, you haven't heard before. Cohesion, new word, but it's there. Okay, never mind about the term or the word. It's what is there holding the other three rupas together. In Thai, we use the word water, in Thai, for that which binds the three together, it's the wrong word, but we use that word. We don't understand the truth of it, so it's wrong. When we say this word for apo-dhatu, people think that it's water, because they just take the word wrongly. But what is there? It's a separate characteristic.

Pathavi cannot be tejo or vayo. That's why the three are there together, cohered by that apo-dhatu. Just holding the three together. So when touching, only pathavi, tejo, or vayo can be touched, but not apo. They're there, stuck together by that one, apo. It is just like the glue holding them together, and only that which is there binds them all together. See, how subtle it is. They are together, can never be separated, by the apo.

So what we call water, is it apo-dhatu? Can you separate the four elements or the three? Because of apo is there. Just one drop for rupas.

#DhammahomeTV source video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl77piOYFEI