Nineteen sobhana cetasikas for just one moment of kusala citta
Excerpt from the Dhamma discussion with Ajahn Sujin and Nepali students in Bkk on Thu Jul 18th 2024.
Mp3 audio file: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AujD6qLjtvuOjxST6mXZ8benjHme
Saddha, getting clearer because of understanding
So now, we'll talk a little more about sobhana cetasikas, one by one, little by little. Which one would you like to talk about? [Saddha.] Saddha, okay. You have heard a lot about it, right? [Yes, I have.] So what is it? [Purity.] So, can any moment of sobhana citta arise without saddha? [No.] Impossible, because it clears up the akusala cetasikas of akusala moments. So, the cetasikas arising with it are sobhana. So, at any moment, at any level of sobhana citta, there must be saddha.
That's why, all together, the wholesome moments need... how many cetasikas? [Nineteen cetasikas.] Saddha is one, no doubt about it. Is there saddha right now? When? Now, now, now, daily life, this moment. Otherwise, it's just in the book. So, we can talk about just that very moment. Is there saddha now? [No.] No, see. So, at any moment, there can be the moment of understanding the nature of the reality. Otherwise, it's just about when we will understand more and so on.
Is it clear, about saddha? Who has more saddha? How come to be that level of saddha? So, at the moment of understanding again, a little more, again and again, the saddha gets clearer, clearer because of understanding. So, when there is the understanding right now, saddha is different from the first time you came to study, right? More saddha... or less? Sohan? You didn't listen. No saddha at that moment, see. At the moment of not listening, there is no saddha. That's why we can understand daily life a little more to condition the direct understanding of that moment, which cannot be understood without the development of understanding little by little.
So, what was my question? To you, just a moment ago, do you have more or less saddha than before? [More.] When? [At the moment of understanding.] At the moment of kusala. So, kusala moment is so very, very important, so very precious, even just a moment, because at that moment, there is less akusala and a little more kusala. It's the only way to have more, to develop more kusala, any moment.
So, from now on, there is the understanding of how saddha develops. It depends on how much understanding, how much confidence of kusala or sobhana. Does he have more kusala than yesterday, Sohan? Yes or no? [Yes.] What way? What did you do today? [Learned more about reality.] More than yesterday. [More interested to learn about reality.] I see. So, more saddha. Is that right? [Yes.] Okay, that's the way to understand more or less saddha.
Sati, the reality which is not forgetful of kusala
And Priya? Payo talked about saddha and what other cetasikas? If we're understanding saddha now, we can go on to other sobhana cetasikas. [Sati.] Sati, okay, what is it? [Mindfulness.] Is there sati at the moment when there is understanding? [Yes.] Is there sati at the moment of helping? [Yes.] What other moments sati is there? [With all kusala.] I don't like just the term kusala, what about the situation? What about at that very moment, not the word? [To understand the reality.] It's just the word. [Dana.] When? Because you can talk about situations, but not your own, right? The others' kusala. So at the moment of seeing the others' kusala, what citta is there?
In order to understand the reality, dhamma, citta, cetasika, rupa, it's not just following the word. Without sati, can anyone know what citta is there right now? There must be citta. And citta is wholesome or unwholesome, how can it be known? There must be sati as well, at that moment. That's why we just learn about the meaning, the word, but what about that very moment, is it known?
At the moment of crying, is there sati? At the moment of drinking, is there sati? Why not? [Because there is attachment.] There is akusala, attachment, otherwise, you wouldn't drink. It has to be right then. Not forgetting, what cetasika is it? What is there now? Not forgetting or forgetting? That's why it is akusala. Kusala or akusala? Who gave it to you? [Ajahn Anup.] So, at the moment of giving, no Ajahn Anup, citta is there. Will you ask him what citta? Can we ask Khun Anup for citta? So, it has to be only that very moment, when it's gone we try to think about it. It cannot be known because it's gone, not there anymore.
That's why before there can be direct understanding of the truth as no-self, another stage, not just hearing about it, but there are conditions to understand that which is not forgotten, that we have heard. It's there, reality. If it's not known, it's just an object of thinking about. Not understanding that very moment.
So, the second round of the four noble truth is not just hearing, but it has to be a moment of understanding what is there. By whom? By what, at that moment? We just talk about the reality which is sati, not forgetting of kusala. It does need thinking before doing, but at that very moment, sati is there, it's conditioned, sati. It conditions such deed, never forget to give when time comes.
So, is Dhamma easy to understand, to realize, to eradicate? That's why this is the Teaching of the Enlightened One. That's why nobody can become sotapañña without understanding this very moment at all. It has to be now, this moment, is that right? Because the first ariya-sacca, what arises and falls away, is dukkha. Even now it arises, but it's not known. How can there be the understanding of dukkha? All that is there now, everything, every moment, every split-second moment, see? Is it true? It's so true that it is the noble truth, ariya-sacca. Nothing is as true as the four ariya-sacca. So, just saying how many ariya-sacca, four… what is what… it's not enough.
Understanding the subtlety of each reality, that is so deep. So, is seeing arising now and falling away now? [Yes, Ajahn.] Certain? Confidence, aditthana parami, never changing. It can be realized. By what? By sati, see. There are many realities, sobhana-cetasikas, but sati is there. Without it, there cannot be thinking about what is there now as it is, not there anymore. So, there is the term sati-patthana, not cetana-patthana, not phassa-patthana, not viriya-patthana, only sati-patthana.
So, for the Buddha-to-be, bodhisatta, what is his object? In life, from moment to moment? Understanding to condition sati until it's the way, the path leading to realize the truth. Isn't it so precious, understanding the truth as it is, otherwise, blindness cannot understand the truth.
Can we say what is more important? Or are all sobhana? Is that true? So, how many moments sati arose today? But the Buddha taught about it, more than only this. Even while one is sleeping, is there sati? Who knows? But the Buddha taught about the truth. Conditions, from moment of sati, without sati, as asaya, not anusaya, asaya, it's there. So, while you are fast asleep, is there sati? You don't know, but what did the Buddha say? Were you born with sati, or without sati? [With sati.] Why? [Because we are be born with kusala maha-vipaka.] Otherwise, there could not be sati right now, listening to the words of the Buddha. So, as one was born with sati, why don't have it more? Otherwise, there will not be any moment with sati, when one wakes up. What's your patisandhi citta? [Maha-vipaka.] With pañña, or without pañña? [We don't know, but... without pañña.] Khun Suvannarit, do you know? [I don't know.] Really? [Not the patisandhi citta.]
But we are talking about understanding. So, is there sati right now? Otherwise, when one was born with maha-vipaka, without interest of understanding the truth at all, and the one who was born with interest to understand the truth, different ones. And without sati, there can never be the kusala moment to condition maha-vipaka, to be the one which performs the function of birth. Good fortune or good deeds?
Begin to understand how precious is to be born as human being, being able to listen to the truth which is so very precious, and who knows whether that life will be short or long? It can end tomorrow or anytime from now on. So the best thing in life is to listen to the Teachings of the Truth.
Do we have enough understanding? [No, Ajahn.] Not at all. What would be more? [Lobha.] Don't you need understanding? It's there by conditions. Understanding more about the four noble truths, just the first round, it's not enough… Even the second round, not enough… Even the third round, depending on what level is there.
The Teachings of the Buddha condition more and more understanding that you cannot think by yourself how deep it is. How deep is this moment? Because now, whatever arises falls away, unknown. How deep? Is it true? [Yes, Ajahn.] Yesterday, where were you? [Here at the Foundation.] In this chair? And today, where is it? It's gone already. It's gone. Each moment, it's gone. Even tomorrow, you'll sit here, but not this one. Never be this one, but you remember, it's me, again.
While you are asleep, do you have the idea "I am Rohan", Sohan? But when you wake up, see, it's me. No matter the king, the dog, the cat, or anyone, at the moment of sleeping, no one at all, no idea about anyone, nothing there. But when one wakes up, I am, you are, everything. How come? From nothing, being something, and then nothing, instantly. Can this be realized, this truth? When? So now, no doubt about sati, right?
Hiri, ashamed to have akusala
And you, Deevier? [Hiri.] What is it? Shame. About what? [Shame to do akusala.] When? [At the moment of kusala arising.] See, we just talked about, but the question is whether, is there shame now? You've heard a lot, but is there shame now? This is the most important, why do you study whrn you're learning about shame, and what about, is there shame now? To be understood, not just the word or the idea. But even so, one knows, at the moment of wholesome action, deeds, or speech, there must be shame, not to lie, not to kill, or not to do ill deeds. But if we don't listen at all, it's I all the time. Even when one learns about "it's not I, it's just shame". And in truth, it's shame, no one at all. But right understanding hasn't reach the degree of directly understanding shame at that moment. But when we learn a lot about all kinds of realities, kusala, it can be, at that moment, that shame appears, not to do wrong deeds or wrong speech.
That's why we learn to understand it when there are conditions to understand, right then, when it's there. Otherwise we don't know what is there at all. But when we know about what shame is, so at moment of wholesomeness, abstaining, it's ashamed to do akusala. Not just the word, but it's there. Is it sometimes like that, before or after understanding it? [After understanding.] Before there can be shame, but I am ashamed. So many levels of understanding. Are you ashamed to have akusala? It's so great, ashamed to have akusala. See, how come it's so great? Because all day, akusala.
So, shame to be akusala. More levels. Shame to steal, shame to lie, ordinary. Shame not to listen to the truth. Different levels. How many moments of shame, shameful moments, in a day? [Many moments.] Very good… When? [Any moment there can be shame.] Shame? [Shame of doing any akusalas, because we do many akusalas in a day.] What's more, kusala or akusala? Learn to understand what is there, taken for self, but it's not self, it's different realities.
Nineteen sobhana cetasikas are needed for just one moment of kusala citta
So now, what's your wholesome cetasika? [Saddha.] [Sati.] [Hiri.] [Ottappa] One by one. [Ottappa means seeing the danger of doing akusala.] Is it dangerous? See, otherwise we think that it doesn't matter, but pañña can see even that it's dangerous, not understanding the truth, which will lead to more and more dangerous moments. Can anyone change the truth? Even just so, very little, it's there.
And one, two, three, four, five, nine, ten. [Adosa cetasika.] Among yours friends, who has more dosa? [We don't know.] Do you have very little dosa, all of you? [We all have.] Equal? [Not equal.] That's the question. No one ever says I at all, no one, just the others. [I have, Ajahn.] Beginning to be shameful… [Yes, Ajahn.]
Who has more sati? No one says not I, or he/she, see? Different answers. Do you have any idea? Not you, right? Whatever is asked it's all there, right? Lobha, dosa, moha. What is the akusala that you dislike most? [Moha.] Really? So now, you eat food with… less attachment! See? That's why we just learn about it, to understand the truth when it's there, as it's still there, conditioned to be there.
And the next one? [Citta-passaddhi.] [Tatramajjattata.] Can it be known? It has to be a right understanding, so great, but learn to understand that more wholesome cetasikas are needed for just one moment of kusala, or sobhana-citta. Is there any sobhana-cetasikas that you'd like to experience, Khun Suvannarit? Is it citta-passaddhi? I mean which one you'd like more or best to realize or to be the object of understanding, because there are together 19 kinds of sobhana cetasikas. Which one you like the most, to be experienced? Would you like to experience that? [It's very deep.] We can learn about it, but can it be directly experienced? Depending on conditions, but no expectation, no wish to experience it.
Two kinds of cetasika, one calms down the citta, and the other calms down the cetasikas. These have to arise, otherwise, citta cannot be wholesome. And when they're there, no name. The most important thing, just understand the nature of it. Beyond imagination, it's only pañña. That's why it depends on pañña, have confidence in pañña.
It doesn't matter what will be the object of understanding, depending on conditions. That's the only way to let go attachment and ignorance. But learn to know how many, that's all. [It depends on the level of pañña to experience kaya-passaddhi, citta-passaddhi.] You name it or experience it? [No need to name it.] So there must be the understanding of the nature of each one. That's why it doesn't matter at all.
Just understand the nature of that which is nama dhamma or rupa dhamma. Otherwise, it hinders the moment of experiencing that which is there with understanding. So we just learn about it, no expectation, no wish to experience which one. Otherwise, it hinders again, all the time.
The wide world in truth is so very tiny, just a moment
So now, all nineteen? Or just naming nineteen? [Just naming, Ajahn.] That's why it doesn't matter what, but it's there when it's there, appearing as nama or rupa. Otherwise, it conditions the thought about the name, which is not the moment of directly experiencing the nature of it. That's why satipatthana is so very difficult, to realize the nature of it. It has to be only by pañña which knows.
All nineteen? Or do we have to remember them each day? So, the moment of hearing what is there, no matter what the nineteen cetasikas or the akusala cetasikas, not the word, but the reality, to understand that in order to let go of atta, from that which is so very tiny. The wide world in truth is so very tiny. Just a moment.
It is the moment of realizing the nature of it-is-not-I-because-it-experiences-the-object. Or it's that which, when there is no clear understanding, it appears as so very hard. But when it appears to right understanding at the level of nama-rupa-pariccheda-ñana, it's so very little, no matter what. Can there be doubt at that moment? All dhammas are anatta, forgetting it again.
There can be anything, to be known again, to have more confident of the truth. No one can manage, no one can do anything, they're all appearing by conditions. Even doubt is there, it's not me. Otherwise, one thing that at that moment there shouldn't be doubt, but doubt hasn't been completely eradicated. It can arise any time, the test of the degree of understanding at any moment. Daily life or even that moment, can it be that one day, how long? It does matter, depending on understanding right now.
#DhammahomeTV source video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tgHio-mA3A